"Assigned at birth" - challenging it at school

[FacebookPhotos]

Has anyone successfully challenged the use of this terminology in a school? I teach science in a secondary school and I've just overheard a non-science teacher explaining to children in PSHE that biological sex is assigned at birth. I need to challenge it, but wondered if anyone has managed to get that particular terminology changed.

In the old days before DNA testing was available and a sexually ambiguous child was born a sex would be assigned based on the science available. For example a boy was born without a penis they would be surgically castrated and brought up as a girl. Thus the child was surgically assigned to a “sex” .
Assigning a sex was not necessary for children who were clearly anatomically male or female.
Unfortunately, assigning a sex often meant removing vestigial anatomical parts of the body so that the child fitted the anatomical norm. This eventually created a whole new set of issues at puberty and beyond.
Fortunately, we do it differently now.
So yes sometimes sex had to be assigned in a very small number of cases. It is no longer necessary, although for children whose sex is indeterminable at birth through observation, it can mean a lifetime of surgery and difficulties. However, they no longer reach puberty and are presented with even bigger problems.

When I’m interviewing candidates for university degrees, the key analytical skill we try to measure is whether they can adapt their argument when they are challenged on incorrect reasoning. The very worst thing they can do in interview is stick doggedly to a point that is factually incorrect, despite all reasoned opposition from experts in the field.

That, we tend to call “bloody-minded clinging to error in the face of obvious evidence”, not “tenacity and work ethic”. But each to their own 🤣

Historically the term “assign” is actually a physical procedure rather than observational decision.

As it is today with gender reassignment surgery. It’s in the name!

No, it wasn’t a caveat. It was an explanation as to why such a judgement is also a type of value judgement and it is due to the factor of exigency as opposed to cultural/moral factors that make a judgement a value judgement in its most common usage.

You’re no “expert in the field” 😂😂😂😂

Oh dear 😂

And on another thread recently you were trying to argue that the existence of Stone Age fertility mannequins is evidence that pornography was much more widespread then, than in today’s internet culture.

But still, tell us more about your numerous degrees and four children again…?

@nightwakingmoon potayto....

What I don't understand is why the TRAs use Assigned at Birth to imply the midwife/doctor got it wrong but at other times say that sex and gender are not the same (yes we know they're not!). Why is "assigned" needed then?

No I wasn’t. I was only saying pornography has always been around from prehistory, to ancient times to now in response to a poster who claimed pornography has only existed since the womens rights movement started.

Btw, there is no evidence that the Venus figurines from ~25,000 years ago were for fertility purposes. Anyone who tells you that is speculating as nobody knows. But what is evident is that they are depictions of naked women with the breasts, hips, thighs and vulva all exaggerated…which is pornographic. Whether it’s religious pornography or not is unknown.

Well, I think many people don’t always realise that one of the key markers of genuine intellectual ability is to be able to change your mind when shown your reasoning is wrong.

I wouldn’t have got very far in my own tutorials as an undergraduate if I hadn’t been able to listen and adapt when my tutors told me I was mistaken. You get used to going away and reading more and learning more so that you can gradually start to master a field and a set of disciplinary tools for thinking and argument. And this is what we teach good students to do, too.

(Thankfully, mine would generally know better than to use Wikipedia on me or they’d be writing an extra essay for me that term on “why I should use properly referenced sources: discuss” - we generally read all the basic Wikipedia articles in our subjects so that we can spot anyone trying to pass off internet rubbish instead of reading some peer-reviewed books 🤷‍♀️)

Yes some TRAs do pretend that “assigned at birth” allowance for error in the case of intersex not easily observed would also apply to them and the belief of some of them that you can change sex.

But that’s no reason for the GC crowd to also pretend assigned at birth means this too. Which is what is happening here. People thinking “assigned” literally means a random, arbitrary choice not based on any criteria whatsoever and thus completely changeable on a whim. That’s what some TRAs have been spouting for years. And it’s just plain wrong.

But apparently a goodly number of GC women have fallen for the TRA rhetoric and think protesting the word “assigned” is the way to tackle things when it’s futile. You can cut and paste whatever word you want in there, it’s not going to change their beliefs. And they’ll just brainwash you into thinking whatever word you pick means something completely different…just like they did with “assigned”

So protest all you want, it’s not addressing the root of the issue at all. It’s just tinkering around the edges in a cat and mouse game.

I'm a GC woman and I haven't fallen for anything. It just doesn't make sense.

Oh do shut up. The whole marker of intellectual ability changing mind could apply equally to you.

Wikipedia is perfectly fine & acceptable for cutting and pasting basic definitions on an informal chat forum. You don’t need a peer reviewed source as a reference for a common definition!

You would know that if you were really in academia….

What happened when you politely asked your colleague why they said that? Surely that's the starting point...

Even the inventor of Wikipedia says Wikipedia is a pile of shite.

Much like 'assigned at birth'.

People thinking “assigned” literally means a random, arbitrary choice not based on any criteria whatsoever and thus completely changeable on a whim.

The context is teaching children. Many of whom do not have a clear understanding of the word "assigned". Indeed, I asked my year 12 this morning what the word means, and they said "given" or "told to do". As we have limited time to teach PSHE it is far better to use a simple clear word which is inarguably correct (sex definitely is recorded at birth) rather than spend ages trying to clarify what the word "assigned" means.

Fortunately, I managed to catch up with the PSHE co-ordinator at lunch - when I explained he understood and agreed, and has asked me to check over the other resources. Apparently all the available ones were crap so he had tried to make his own.

I’ve just about read this whole thread now, god knows why. Maybe we should just start a new one. With the starting premise that the word ‘assigned’ is banned.

Great result, @FacebookPhotos
Well done for tackling it.

One could almost argue that if one’s sex was incorrectly ‘assigned’ at birth and was recorded as male when you were in fact female, then claiming to be female later in life doesn’t mean you're trans at all

Excellent outcome!

That’s great FacebookPhotos. So glad for the kids at your school that you’re on the case and the PSHE teacher is open to improving their curriculum,

The fact is that the use of “assigned” is a deliberate one here. It’s used because trans-rights activists have pushed the fiction that sex really is mutable, and that it genuinely was a choice being made in the maternity ward when the sex was “assigned.”

Yes, it's being used to seamlessly conflate gender identity with sex and imply that it is chosen for the baby and can therefore be unchosen. It's so dishonest that they then claim they believe these two things are different.

The dictionary definition of "assign" is "designate or set aside for a specific purpose ". Ie actively deciding where something that does not already have a place should be placed.

Doctors and midwives aren't doing any assigning. They aren't deciding what sex category to place a baby in. That baby has had its sex determined right back when sperm met egg. All the medical staff do is look at the empirical evidence in front of them to work out what sex category that baby is already in. They don't actively put it in the category they fancy!

As a former local authority PSHE Advisor I recommend you have a whole school policy on this. The very fact that your PSHE coordinator is scratching around and randomly choosing resources is very concerning. SLT should be aware of what's happening and funding appropriate training and resources. What if you hadn't overheard the initial conversation? It really should not be down to chance. You sound very experienced and handled the situation well.