"Assigned at birth" - challenging it at school

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Has anyone successfully challenged the use of this terminology in a school? I teach science in a secondary school and I've just overheard a non-science teacher explaining to children in PSHE that biological sex is assigned at birth. I need to challenge it, but wondered if anyone has managed to get that particular terminology changed.

But my god what a discussion. Post modern, post science, post knowledge... post common sense, all rolled into one.

It's not a choice though. It's an observation - the word 'choice' implies the chooser has a decision to make and can go either ways.

The chooser does have a decision to make, M or F and it can go either way. The way it goes depends on the observations.

I'd be interested to know how many trans people were incorrectly sexed.

“Knowing what something you observe means or what something you observe is requires an internal decision making thought process”

So it’s your logic of saying recalling your knowledge is what determines the assignation.

Er no, it’s more than mere recall of knowledge. To assign, you first need that internal decision making process using the knowledge you’ve recalled.

Don’t know what you are on about. I am using “value judgement” in its meaning and usage as a tentative judgment based on a considered appraisal of the information at hand, taken to be incomplete and evolving

@Discovereads well, that is an incorrect definition of a value judgement, in that case. Perhaps as I said, a little history and theory of science reading, plus a bit of introductory philosophy and basic epistemology, would help you here. (Actual books, not rubbish on the internet.)

The only issue with this is that people get confused between the words 'assigned' and 'observed'. Just like they do with 'sex' and 'gender'. The majority of people understand what they mean but a minority of people feel the need to correct them. Only a very tiny minority believe it to be true.

People make mistakes. Doesn't mean others are influenced by them. An hour later, the kids probably won't even remember what was said

No, it’s not an “incorrect” definition of value judgement. It is one of several valid definitions. Perhaps you’re not as widely read or as educated as you think since you’re unaware of this definition and usage?

Instead of using the word assigned but to incorporate the thought process following observation we might say deduced.
The process is observation, and then based on the evidence, a deduction is made. The result of this process is the officially recorded sex.
This allows for the possibility of error in observation or deduction in the tiny number of cases where it happens.

Eminently sensible and nobody in their right mind could argue with it!

I think it is always important that biology teachers to say out loud, here as much as anywhere else, that young teens are not as sure of sex as we adults seem to think they are.

Yes deduced is an adequate substitute for assigned.

You have teenagers in Year 7? OK…you definitely sound like you know what you’re talking about 🤪

So how many fingers am I holding up?

✌️

Walk me through how you will “assign” the answer to be two, based on knowledge recall, internal decision making etc.

The moon is still the moon whether or not you assign it a set of letters or not.

A girl will still be a girl whether or not you assign it the word 'girl' or 'fille' or (another word for girl in any language).

onestly @Discovereads

Don’t know what you are on about. I am using “value judgement” in its meaning and usage as a tentative judgment based on a considered appraisal of the information at hand, taken to be incomplete and evolving

You are being Humpty again!

I’m afraid that cutting and pasting a phrase you don’t understand from Wikipedia is not, I’m afraid, actual philosophy. 😂

You write like a teenager - I’m afraid I cannot take seriously your claim that you have four children! 🤣

But others are influenced in this circumstance. Lots of young people use the line Jazz Jennings always used “the doctors assigned me a boy gender, when I’m really a girl.” It doesn’t matter if the majority forget it and aren’t influenced by it. Just one being misled is wrong.

I’m going to borrow from a pp as they’ve written it v eloquently

The process is observation, and then based on the evidence, an assignment of the value of 2 is made. The result of this process is the officially recorded number 2.

And a partial c+p at that! 😛

Value judgment also can refer to a tentative judgment based on a considered appraisal of the information at hand, taken to be incomplete and evolving—for example, a value judgment on whether to launch a military attack or as to procedure in a medical emergency.[2] In this case the quality of judgment suffers because the information available is incomplete as a result of exigency, rather than as a result of cultural or personal limitations.

Observation is not assigning. You just threw out the whole view of light as both a wave and a particle and turned it into a social construct where someone assigns various light elements (since it seems I can’t say waves or particles until some higher being ordains it so) with these attributes, thereby destroying entire fields of science. I knew at 11 weeks gestation that I was growing a little baby girl because some of her dna was present in my blood. The data was observed from a blood sample and I was informed. Health care and medical practitioners did nothing but pass on information, they made no assignations. My baby was not assigned anything at birth and I’d love to hear my obstetricians views on that.

The value of 2?

That REALLY isn't a 'value judgement' - which is a judgement of the value of an action... good or bad! COME ON!!!

That is an either/or - sex as a binary. Secondary sex organs denoting which is applicable.

LANGUAGE - it really does make things clear, when used correctly.

If only this were true. The use of "assigned" is very deliberate, and even if the kids don't remember the precise wording, they will come away with an impression that sex is all a bit woolly, and that they can take some pills or have an operation to change if.

Because that is the intention of the PSHE lesson, which has probably been written by a third party and downloaded off the internet without due care and attention.

oh, I do understand it and apparently better than you do as it’s not philosophy based definition and usage of value judgement!

I write like a teenager? Give up. You just can’t admit I’m right so are resorting to silly insults.

Can someone explain what "value judgement" means please. I always thought it meant judging somethings worth/value based on... ummm... something.
Eg my brothers were always told they were more important than me because they were boys and wold carry on the family name. Eg they were "worth more" or "had more value" because they were boys.

Why only adequate? Deduced seems to be a better nuanced word for a scientific process by which medical staff are applying a very simple and accurate probabilistic algorithm with nearly 100% accuracy.

’Assigned at birth’ terminology is incorrect and unscientific. Sex is observed at birth based on the person’s biology. The word ‘assigned’ suggests there was no specific sex prior to that point, and that it was a matter for the doctor or midwife to decide.