Tragic thread from detransitioner

[stealtheatingtunnocks]

Good God. Where were the medical ethics? Poor sod, how would you ever find peace with this? twitter.com/tullipr/status/1536422533230206976?s=21&t=uQXxEPdczk1h1eTnAs3Zyw

I am sick of reading these stories. Literally nauseous. I mean, when it comes to the most disgusting things you can do to a person there is murder, rape, torture, enslavement... that's the sort of stuff that's on a level with what we're talking about here. The only justification is that the person consented, but there are so many massive red flags that suggest that "consent" is neither possible nor beneficial. Horrific. I hope he can find peace and maybe even happiness.

I think that the best thing that could happen now for the GC movement - and young people starting on a trans pathway - is if somehow it could be made clear to everyone in power that, whatever their position on trans issues, they have to have absorbed and recognize the large and increasing numbers of horrific detrans stories. How is it not already massive news?

You cannot, in mid 2022, be advocating for anything trans related without acknowledging that there are a lot of people with stories like this. If you haven't noticed, or are pretending not to have noticed, then it's just not acceptable. By this point you are complicit, and you deserve similar criticisms to those previously reserved for affirmation-only therapists, the surgeons and the likes of Nancy Kelly.

i have just been reading that on Twitter - absolutely tragic.

That is a brutal read. Poor man. How many people around him let him down? I wish him well, I really do.

It's like a sick experiment. Broke my heart reading this.

I hope the people who sat there in offices and clinics ok-ing this to vulnerable people read this thread. Shockingly too, after I looked up the thread on Twitter just now, the following headline popped up in Twitter's 'headlines' sidebar: 'I started transitioning in my 50s - trust me, it's never too late'. It's from Metro. A few days ago, another peculiar Metro headline was being pushed for at least 48 hours by Twitter's headline-pickers, about 'white gay privilege'. Something deliberate is going on here.

That is raw. Just so much for Tulip to deal with. I have seen Tulip pop up on twitter but didn’t know their story.

This is heartbreaking to read.

That any vulnerable person goes through this must be heartbreaking. And yet, these stories are not told. It is like a cone of silence with only a few that escape. Tulip says it is quite common to have such significant complications.

Horrendous l

There’s another thread about TullipR with a link to an interview with him.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4547176-just-checking-in-podcast-interview-male-destransitioner

He’s a brave man, much respect and love to send to him.

I feel very angry about what is being done to women's rights but I find what we are doing to children and detransitioner stories hardest to bear. We can send supportive messages to Tulip and thank him (MNHQ - I'm assuming pronouns based on sex and detrans status) for speaking out to help others but it feels like far too little. It should never have happened and it cannot be fixed. I have no idea how anyone comes to terms with this but I sincerely hope Tulip can find some peace and acceptance with their situation. I hope his detrans awareness work and the (sadly) growing detrans community provide the support he needs.

It's hard to decide if it's intense sadness or absolute rage which is the most appropriate emotion here.

I read that thread earlier open mouthed. Poor person. Utterly let down.
It should be required reading

I saw this thread too
I'm unclear whether people are finding info is withheld, or they are being misled, or they don't ask questions and doctors assume they will know some things. Tbh some of the stuff mentioned isn't surprising. I see one person in the replies has mentioned personal responsibility.

I would have a gazillion questions about any surgery so I'm a bit unclear what happens here.

Utterly heartbreaking. I wish the people bandying derogatory terms around would understand THIS is why your mum/sister/mate/cousin/daughter wants you to really think this through. There's no magic female/male wand.

What happened to 'first, do no harm'?

I've seen a lot of accounts from detranstioners which are hard reads.

I assume that these people are exhausted from dealing with their day to day - building a movement of detransitioners is going to take energy and I guess that will be hard.

I'd like to see them present in the Scottish Parliament hearings on the GRA.

This is heartbreaking. Tulip was clearly in no fit state to ‘consent’ to this butchery.

But what the hell do people think is going to happen, when everyone is literally forbidden to question such vulnerable people’s wish for surgery. Let alone try to persuade them not rush into anything irreversible.

I completely disagree with the personal responsibility angle which some people are bringing up in the comments. The majority of detransitioners I've seen, and they all agree, were severely unwell at the time. I think if you're mentally unwell then it's doctors responsibility to not allow you to access drugs and surgery that will harm you. It's outrageous that people can.

First do no harm, indeed.

If you think about people who had surgery in the past - I only know 2 - it gets complicated. Because in the past, they'd be considered by some as being unwell it want it. Now it seems everyone, myself included, is categorised as vulnerable.

i don't know how much things have changed but surely papers are signed with risks noted?

i'm not suggesting doctors are free of blame. Far from it. I just wonder about the detail of what happens now.

i'm not sure that hearing about these experiences will have any impact on people who want to talk about gender only, if you see what I mean.

I agree it’s unfair commenters are talking about personal responsibility when these people have been failed by doctors, therapists, endocrinologists, surgeons etc. But I was looking on the detrans Reddit sub that Tullip is a part of and there were a few posters asking about surgery and outcomes etc and detrans people were replying saying no, don’t do it, no way and listing all their complications. And the original posters responses were pretty much yes I know it won’t be perfect but I still want to do it. I wonder if there is a sort of mindset people get into, that even if they were told they wouldn’t listen? Or perhaps it’s more that they need everyone to question their decisions - family, doctors, therapists, surgeons - and then they might reconsider.

To be honest I didn't really know about the issues until I joined Mumsnet. I had only seen the positive sides presented to me. I was already GC I guess it would be called but I had no idea about all the health implications!

There are people on detrans Reddit asking for confirmation that x,y,z will be reversible before they even start, in case they change their mind, so obviously this isn’t an ‘innate’ feeling and yet outside of that forum, there is no-one to say to them ‘hang on a moment, slow down’.

Tulip’s story is why, despite all the ‘but he still has a penis!’ outcry about TWs, I would still rather as few people as possible go through this awful surgery. Another detransitioner has written it is no wonder trans people still commit suicide despite having had it all done, as facing the consequences of having made such a mistake is too much to bear. I hope Tulip is getting all the support he needs. These are the stories which need to be told.

EmmaH2022 · "...I see one person in the replies has mentioned personal responsibility. I would have a gazillion questions about any surgery so I'm a bit unclear what happens here"

As he stated, he was in deep delusion so clearly not capable of making informed consent.This is exactly why stringent gate-keeping is absolutely required.

This is the first time I have read of these experiences, and my first reaction is this needs to get out in the public forum (I wouldn't have seen it if not for Mumsnet) and not necessarily identifying the patient, but rather be part of the bigger conversation that surrounds transition.

How terribly sad.

I just don’t think that’s fair to apply that expectation to someone in that state who is probably fairly young and being widely convinced and influenced that this is the solution. I mean, look at the mentally healthy peeople losing their savings on Bitcoin, being antivax, believing the us election was stolen…. Nothing but sympathy for someone who had this surgery without being fully aware of the downsides. I’m sure it also happens (not remotely to that extent) in other major surgeries also as despite doctors best efforts (I think best efforts do not apply to tullips doctors) it can be hard to convey the impacts even when they are trying and patients are rational although to be fair unwell.

I would say that mathematically, multiple people beyond Tulip were involved here, and therefore, on a purely additive basis, their personal responsibility to make good decisions, like not signing off surgery or performing surgery on someone unfit to consent, far, far outweighs his personal responsibility to make good decisions. And then we get into professional responsibility, which they also bear.