LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

[pombear]

Fantastic news.

I would link to their Twitter announcement, but in usual state of play, Twitter has marked it ' may not be appropriate for people under 18'. A helpline planned for 13 to 25 year olds, planned by a panel of experts in child protection, education, helpline delivery, fundraising and psychology.

Yep - shut them down (much better to have helplines planned by IT workers who took their child to Thailand...)

As LGB Alliance state there is no dedicated national service of its kind for young LGB people in the UK.

I'm sure the Lottery Fund will be getting a lot of feedback right now, given the outpouring of hyperbole against LGB Alliance right now on Twitter.

So they may appreciate feedback from those who may see this as a positive move too:

""We really value your feedback. If you have a comment or complaint about the services that we provide, or if there's something important you think we should know, we'd love to hear it. Please email us at [email protected]"

The people running the trans helplines are also quite likely to be LGB themselves, and highly likely to know other people who are, so they will know that struggle. And hopefully they won't signpost the kids to a group openly hostile to trans people!

Gay kids are NOT being made to think they're trans if they're not! That is a lie being spread by anti-trans groups.

Why would they? What do they have to gain?

There is nothing ethical about lgba. They set themselves up to openly oppose gender identity, they say it doesn't exist, they say trans kids don't exist, that trans kids are just confused lgb kids. Denial of the existence of gender identity is a hate crime.

It is the opinion of the people who use their services, and the opinion of The Good Law Project who are supporting them in their appeal against the LGBA charity status.

Is the Good law project the one run by Jo Maugham, the one who just identifies as winning cases? In that case, I think LGBA will be ok. Now if they were up against someone competent, like the lovely Ben Copper, it might be a different story.

@Starlee "Denial of the existence of gender identity is a hate crime."

I don't know in which country you live but it obviously is not Britain, where it is confirmed in law that "denial of the existence of gender identity" is a protected belief and is entirely lawful. [See Forstater judgement.]

@Starlee I'm a bit unsure what you're saying. In one post you state that kids know if they're trans. What does that mean to you?

Later, you state that parents would only choose that option (trans) for kids if absolutely necessary. But, surely if the kids already know their inner trans essence, the parent's choice is irrelevant? Or do you mean the parents would only choose medical transition for their kids if absolutely necessary?

That brings me back to - what exactly do you mean by 'being trans'?

Also, please read the experiences of the many parents of trans-identified teens on this board. In most cases, this is not an agenda pushed by parents, and is clearly influenced by social contagion.

I think you are spot on @TastefulRainbowUnicorn

Also, the T is like a parasite when grouped with LGB, so it's a great thing that the LGB community are able to get the support where needed, without having to centre the T.

I am guessing some of the TRA community are well aware they are parasites - "being dependent on, or exploiting another while giving little or nothing in return" - and that's why we seem members in here in such a panic over this situation.

Perhaps T being forced to split off onto their own 2 feet, is going to be the literal death of the TRA ideology?

Today, Mermaids has evolved into one of the UK’s leading LGBTQ+ charities

Mermaids have been openly and shockingly homophobic from the start. They've recently realised that it makes them look bad, so are trying to backpedal, but it's not working. Homophobia is baked into their very existence.

I'm so relieved that that LGBA exist. All power to their elbows.

Love how GC is being reframed as an ideology, in the same way that female is now being hijacked, how long before basic biology becomes a 'cult movement'?

The TRs have no arguments rather than spitting such words back the other way nonsensically.

An apple is not an orange.

And rejection of gender stereotypes sounds wholly appropriate for children, especially any non conforming gay kids.

I’d still like an answer to my question about how you define trans people who are LGB, Starlee. If a biologically male transwoman is attracted to women, do you think that makes them a lesbian?

There is nothing ethical about lgba. They set themselves up to openly oppose gender identity, they say it doesn't exist, they say trans kids don't exist, that trans kids are just confused lgb kids. Denial of the existence of gender identity is a hate crime.

You seem unable to deviate from extreme trans activist position.

You just keep repeating tired old trope and misrepresentations that we see on twitter.

Perhaps to back this up, please post the words where LGBA have denied that gender identity doesn’t exist for some people?

And can you please also post the criteria that has been proven to accurately sort children and young people into those who will genuinely persist into old age as their opposite sex gender versus:

-Being one of the 80% that desist by reaching young adulthood
-Being one of those who would detransition but have made such modifications to their body that they cannot.
-Being one of those who do not persist past their early 20s in their opposite sex gender.

I haven’t read a convincing paper on the existence of ‘trans kids’ that would allow any person on this earth to diagnose a child or teen accurately.

So this huge majority of ‘trans kids’ are just what? Collateral damage to supposedly protect the extremely rare % of children who will genuinely persist their transition through a natural lifetime?

And you starlee have no discomfort at all for those that you have relegated to the collateral damage list because you seem to have absolute confidence in the system despite the wide gaping chasms being exposed in treatment?

And you seem to be here discussing ethics with no sense of hypocrisy at all.

And hopefully they won't signpost the kids to a group openly hostile to trans people!

The hyperbole just continues I see.

Do you ever stop and think about the fact you cannot seem to post anything that doesn’t rely on hyperbole, on polarised thinking, or on emotional manipulation to attempt to convince people?

I know two sets of parents who have told me just how unbalanced mermaids advice has been. One found the advice for teens to be driven by males and not appropriate at all for their young female child.

And yet starlee you seem to be able to accept that those two sets of parents opinions. They are hardly ‘anti-trans’ they both love their teens very much.

No organisation is going to be a good fit for all those who need help.

Why on earth are you so actively attempting to reduce other people’s ability to choose a service that suits their particular needs?

They are probably waiting to see some evidence of a person having an innate gender identity before acting as though it exists.

This campaign to posit some kind of sexed soul and to pretend trans is not a function of gender dysmorphia is doing no-one any favours.

It’s because they are claiming something which is obviously not true. They are claiming to be the wrong sex, but that’s a meaningless statement, as we are our physical bodies, the mind is a function of the brain, you can’t be the “wrong” sex any more than you can be the “wrong” race, or be born to the “wrong” parents.

Straight, lesbian and gay kids know they're straight lesbian or gay.

No they bloody don’t, and it’s frankly sinister that you think they do. Children of who are aware of and certain of their sexual orientation are exceptions, not the rule.

Straight, lesbian and gay kids know they're straight lesbian or gay. Why's it so hard to understand that trans kids also know themselves?

Children often don't know their sexuality for certain, though, do they? Frequently not until puberty, and even some time beyond. Lesbians in particular may not figure out that they are until full adulthood, I understand.

The developmental inappropriateness of making children feel they have to apply sexuality labels to themselves, even prepubescent ones, is one of the many complaints we have about this gender ideology.

(Unsurprisingly, there turn out to be a huge number of "asexuals"...)

And when we extend that to "gender" and a "trans" label, we potentially move from "developmentally inappropriate" to "medical malpractice",

We wouldn't sterilise a child without the "trans" label - why should some children be treated with less care?

It's almost as if "trans" is a magic label intended to remove rules for an adult - whether they apply the label to themselves, or to a child.

So, I'm going to turn that around - children often don't know themselves. Why's it so hard to understand that includes "trans" children?

It’s because they are claiming something which is obviously not true. They are claiming to be the wrong sex, but that’s a meaningless statement, as we are our physical bodies, the mind is a function of the brain, you can’t be the “wrong” sex any more than you can be the “wrong” race, or be born to the “wrong” parents.

Spot on @NotKevinTurvey.

We wouldn't sterilise a child without the "trans" label - why should some children be treated with less care?

There have been earnest civil rights discussions when parents proposed sterilising/arresting the development of a girl with profound disabilities so it would make it easier for them to care for her as they aged, over their lifetimes. That's a horrible summary of a complex case but it's an interesting contrast.

As she approached puberty her parents became worried about how they would cope with caring for her. They decided to embark on a drastic series of 'growth attenuation' treatments that would stop this process while also limiting her size.

She underwent estrogen therapy that limited her height - by 2010 she measured 4ft 4", which is about a foot shorter than an average 13-year-old girl.

She also underwent a hysterectomy and had both breast buds removed at Seattle Children's hospital.

Ashley's parents argue that the treatment improved her quality of life and saved her from much discomfort, such as from menstrual cramps. It also meant it was easier for them to help and handle her.

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2115904/Ashley-treatment-Should-parents-stop-disabled-children-growing-up.html

I see starlee was unable to answer my question. As starlee is pushing the idea that trans children's bodies are wrong, I don't think they are worth engaging with. It's such an abhorrent attitude.

In my view, people that insist there's no lgb without the T are equivalent to the "all lives matter" crowd.

It would be great if they could stop "all lives matter"ing the LGB rights movement, but they can't seem to help themselves.

Do you think saying something "is equivalent to" means "co-opting"? Yes or no, emiomo ?

Because that would actually explain quite a lot about TRAs, tbh.