LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

[pombear]

Fantastic news.

I would link to their Twitter announcement, but in usual state of play, Twitter has marked it ' may not be appropriate for people under 18'. A helpline planned for 13 to 25 year olds, planned by a panel of experts in child protection, education, helpline delivery, fundraising and psychology.

Yep - shut them down (much better to have helplines planned by IT workers who took their child to Thailand...)

As LGB Alliance state there is no dedicated national service of its kind for young LGB people in the UK.

I'm sure the Lottery Fund will be getting a lot of feedback right now, given the outpouring of hyperbole against LGB Alliance right now on Twitter.

So they may appreciate feedback from those who may see this as a positive move too:

""We really value your feedback. If you have a comment or complaint about the services that we provide, or if there's something important you think we should know, we'd love to hear it. Please email us at [email protected]"

How on earth did you come to the conclusion that shanling was a TRA?
They're obviously quite the opposite.

That poster doesn't want LGBA to offer a helpline and thinks the T needs to be included. It's doesn't. They are two separate things. By blurring the boundaries we are in this mess. Teens need to see that trans isn't the same as being gay. And I am certain that LGBAs counsellors will be sensible enough to not alienate any teens that phone and express uncertainty over their gender identity.

I agree with titchy. I suspect that there isn't a single LGBTQ organisation in existence in this country that same-sex attracted young people could turn to without being told that their same-sex attraction is transphobic. I would say it's vital that this service is one that recognises the conflict of interest between LGB and T and have no qualms about telling young people that they are fine just the way they are. If you add in the "T" you are adding in all manner of complexity and mixed messaging.

If the National Lottery are happy to fund an LGB exclusive phoneline then they'll fund a TQ+/Non Binary phoneline, the kids will phone the one they see as cool and not the boring LGB one.

That point doesn't get any less stupid for being repeated by a different username. TQ+ helplines already exist. It's incoherent nonsense, they don't want LGB kids to have a helpline so they are throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

"And there we have it" Have what?

There are people who never knew about gender identity, who never heard anything about it, never knew the words to use to understand how they felt. So they thought they were gay or lesbian, which is fine IF that's all they are. As many are.

But for a large number they grew up still not feeling right, realising that you are trans can be a long journey, not all know when they're kids, they just know something is "not right".
Once they make that realisation, which can be at ANY age, the change in them is amazing. It's like finally getting a medical diagnosis for a long term illness which no-one could ever pinpoint, FINALLY it all makes sense, you get the answer for all the questions that have been unanswered for years, maybe decades, and something can finally be done. It's really life-changing for them, for the first time EVER they feel like they're living as their true lives, not having to pretend to be something they're not. I know it's hard to understand if you've not been through it, but you don't have to understand it, just accept that people know themselves better than you know them. No-one goes through the anguish and transphobia they receive for the fun of it.

As for "why if a trans person was LGB why their needs as a LGB person Will not be looked after by LGB Alliance"
I really don't know why they won't help those they don't like, you'd have to ask them that. But it seems if you're also trans, or a trans ally, then that negates the fact that you're also LGB, you're trans therefore you're not "one of them" and are abused, insulted, dehumanised and ridiculed, and classed as 'homophobic' even if you're LGB yourself. And yes, I'm speaking from lived experience of myself and many others that I know.

And yes "There are supporters of LGB Alliance who are trans". They will be a relative few who have completed the whole process in days when they weren't at the mercy of increasingly long waiting lists - currently up to 7 YEARS for a first appointment a gender reassignment clinic depending on where in the country you live. They see themselves as 'special', genuine, yet denigrate other trans people still stuck in that ever increasing waiting list for treatment, even though they are still covered under the Equality Act as a "Protected characteristic".
Of course not all post-op trans come under that label, as ever it's the loudest minority who get heard, the rest are more than happy to support those who are still going through what they themselves have already been through.

You're thinking like a sensible adult and not an impressionable teen.

Please stop with the random non sequiturs.

TQ+ helplines already exist. It's been said a dozen times already on this thread. The existence of an LGB helpline is not going to make TQ+ helplines spring into being because they already exist. This is not a difficult concept. TQ+ helplines already exist. Please grasp that fact and move on. This may be the most stupid argument I've ever fucking seen and I've seen some doozies on this board.

That's not the opposite to what I said. It's a completely different point.

Titchy actually thinks the opposite -

Surely you don't think people manning TQ+ helplines would use a young person's distress to further their own activism?

You might want to switch on your sarcasm-meter....

I absolutely DO think those manning TQ+ helplines are not likely to be capable of support beyond their own activist view. Which is why a helpline from a reputable organisation that has safeguarding at its forefront is so important.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion? Of course I'm not, conversion therapy should be banned FOR ALL!
You can't 'cure' gay and lesbian, same as you can't 'cure' trans. This govt have gone back on their promise to ban conversion therapy for all, limiting the ban only for gays and lesbians, calling it "an abhorrent practice", yet still want to allow it for trans kids? So it's ok for trans kids to be subjected to that same "abhorrent practice" banned for lesbian and gay?
And 'therapy' is the wrong word, therapy is seen as helping people, conversion 'therapy' doesn't work and causes more harm than good. For everyone, LGB or T.

The bit of my post you highlighted above is only about trans kids, not about those who are happily LGB and not trans. You cannot stop a person being trans by persuading them they're just LGB, that is more akin to conversion therapy!

There's absolutely nothing wrong with begin LGB, I am myself, but some people are lgb AND trans, it's not at all uncommon.

Just wondering if it might be helpful to start actually using the word "homosexual" here, as I have a suspicion that Starlee and others mean something different by "LGB" here to others - I think Starlee is using the "homogenderal" definition, hence to them LGB Alliance is "transphobic" because it's not supporting "LGB trans people" (ie heterosexuals).

The problem isn't really much the exclusion of the T (although they claim it is, and that doesn't make much sense). It's the refusal to accept the "homogenderal" definition of LGB, but they can't actually say that directly.

Where did I even suggest that? Of course it's not. But being against trans people, which the LGB Alliance undoubtedly are, IS transphobic.
I think you'll find cancer charities and victims will of course support people with the same type of cancer as themselves, but that doesn't mean they speak out against those with a different cancer, they can support all.

The LGB Alliance is not against transpeople. They are just about supporting people who are same sex attracted. Identifying as trans has nothing to do with sexuality.

Just wondering if it might be helpful to start actually using the word "homosexual" here, as I have a suspicion that Starlee and others mean something different by "LGB" here to others - I think Starlee is using the "homogenderal" definition, hence to them LGB Alliance is "transphobic" because it's not supporting "LGB trans people" (ie heterosexuals).

I think this is a really important point. Biological males, however they identify, cannot be lesbians & biological females cannot be gay men.

Oh the twisting and turning to try & justify why LGB teens shouldn’t have their own helpline is as always very illuminating

LGB alliance are just being accused of the same thing women are, of being “anti trans” (which seems to range from everything including not immediately agreeing that Dave from accounts be addressed as she/her on alternate days of the week to thinking that a 3 year old boy in a dress is just that)

LGB alliance are pro lesbian gay & bisexual people they are not anti trans the same way that the donkey sanctuary is pro donkey is not anti cows

This

This.

Stonewall et al have shunted 'LGBT+' to meaning to them, 'compliant with TQ+ gender ideology politics'. They are not pro homosexuality (in fact getting increasingly openly homophobic and justifying it) because this sets boundaries on a person's perception of their transition.

Homosexual is something different. It does not mean 'politically compliant'. It means people with a highly diverse range of political views and belief systems who have only one thing in common: they are same sex attracted. And are not intending to be bullied out of this.

This is in essence why the LGBA is seen as such a massive threat, and the panic and hyperbole and drama is reaching epic proportions. To permit homosexual and bi people to organise based entirely and only on their sexuality rather than on political compliance yanks away the figleaf that Stonewall is any friend to homosexual people, removes much of their raison detre and permits a very unhelpful voice to the homosexual people who do not want to be hoovered up in TQ+ agendas that are absolutely not in their interests.

They do not want homosexual kids being permitted to hear information or be supported by those who are not compliant mouthpieces of TQ+ politics and will ensure everything said is filtered through the best interests of the agenda at all times. That's the fear.

At least starlee admitted that T people seems to be very different in needs to LGB people. Maybe, just maybe, they will be able to say just why all those letters have to be together otherwise, it is just hate and anti-T.

Of course there are differences, one is sexual orientation, the other is gender identity, two different things.
But they do have some things in common, all need acceptance from others to be who they are without being discriminated against.
Many need help to come to terms with their own situation. LGB and T people often lose family and friends who will not support them, most will suffer either verbal and/or physical abuse because of transphobia and homophobia, they can have extra problems to cope with in terms of employment, housing etc.
It is also very common for trans people to also be LGB and historically have fought alongside each other for their human rights, despite some anti-trans groups now trying to deny any trans involvement in that fight.
"All those letters" belong together because of all the similar fights they've had, because there is strength in numbers, because unity is better than division, love is better than hate, and because most LGB and TQ+ people WANT them to be together, the LGB Alliance are a small minority of the worldwide 'rainbow' community and certainly don't speak for all of us LGB people.

They certainly do however speak for some of us.

And if 'love' is better than 'hate' would you pop over and sort out the messaging that homosexual people need to learn to 'cope' with straight sex or be punched, raped, shunned, beaten with barbed wire baseball bats and so on?

There really is no sense coming out with this trite sentimental waffle when its in defense of a political movement that could not be less tolerant or caring if it tried.

"All those letters" belong together because of all the similar fights they've had, because there is strength in numbers, because unity is better than division, love is better than hate, and because most LGB and TQ+ people WANT them to be together, the LGB Alliance are a small minority of the worldwide 'rainbow' community and certainly don't speak for all of us LGB people.

Which all sounds very lovely and and fluffy and rainbowy, sure, but the problem is that any "LG" people in that combined grouping are now either (a) not actually homosexual, or (b) have to pretend they're not homosexual, and would be open to partners of the opposite sex.

So it doesn't work out terribly well for them in practice any more.

To say you are specifically same-sex attracted is a bannable offence in many such "LGBTQ+" spaces, such as dating sites. This is not hyperbole.

So same-sex attracted people - particularly younger ones looking for partners - clearly need new spaces where it's acceptable to be homosexual, and maybe they can even be proud of it, rather than be shamed for it. And they need organisations willing to stand up for them being openly homosexual.

Firstly, maybe youngsters don't realise that the LGB Alliance are not trans friendly and it might just be the first helpline they see advertised. They might not even realise they are trans and biased 'help' is no help at all. And all LGBT helplines categorically DO NOT tell young LGB people that "they're really trans so actually straight" anyway ". That is not just 'Hyperbole' it's an outright LIE.
You don't seem to understand that a lot of trans people are actually LGB as well, not all straight. Sexual orientation and gender identity are different things and it's very common for people to be both.

Secondly, if a trans kid calls the LGB Alliance helpline they're more likely to be told that they're not really trans, that give it time and they'll grow up to be simply lesbian or gay, which is actually part of the LGBA mission statement. You are very naive to think the LGBA will miss a chance to try and 'convert' a trans kid to an lgb kid instead. They won't be helped 'just like anyone else', have you seen how the LGBA talk to trans people ot their allies?

Thirdly, how am I "spreading fear and lies about LGB people"? I am lgb myself and have a trans daughter and am talking from lived experience. Are you?

Well, I'm a lesbian and I'm saying that with all your hate talk against the LGB Alliance you're spreading fear and disinformation and should be ashamed of your homophobia.

The LGBA isn't anti-trans and doesn't hate trans people. I've told my MP and the Labour Party (of which I'm a member) that while they lie about the basics — sex and biology — I won't believe a word of anything else they say. Because if they're so wrong on something so fundamental, what else have they failed to get their heads around? The exact same applies to you. While you characterise the LGBA as being anti-trans I'm just going to ignore everything else you say. I suggest others do too. You're arguing in bad faith.

You don't seem to understand that a lot of trans people are actually LGB as well, not all straight. Sexual orientation and gender identity are different things and it's very common for people to be both.

How are you defining that though? Do you think that a transwoman can be a lesbian?