LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

[pombear]

Fantastic news.

I would link to their Twitter announcement, but in usual state of play, Twitter has marked it ' may not be appropriate for people under 18'. A helpline planned for 13 to 25 year olds, planned by a panel of experts in child protection, education, helpline delivery, fundraising and psychology.

Yep - shut them down (much better to have helplines planned by IT workers who took their child to Thailand...)

As LGB Alliance state there is no dedicated national service of its kind for young LGB people in the UK.

I'm sure the Lottery Fund will be getting a lot of feedback right now, given the outpouring of hyperbole against LGB Alliance right now on Twitter.

So they may appreciate feedback from those who may see this as a positive move too:

""We really value your feedback. If you have a comment or complaint about the services that we provide, or if there's something important you think we should know, we'd love to hear it. Please email us at [email protected]"

Because not all trans kids will know they're trans. From what I've been told by many trans people, they often think they're lg or b before they find out a bit more about trans issues and make that connection to themselves. The LGBA won't be helping them do that.

Children often know if they're gay or trans, but for trans kids who don't know they're far more likely to get unbiased helped from an inclusive lgbt+ group than an anti-trans group.

"They will give information that doesn't include for example 'it is wrong to not be attracted to a trans girl with a penis if you say you're lesbian, and you should train yourself to get over your prejudices because some girls have penises'."

That is just plain scaremongering and a totally fabricated 'example'. No helpline is going to say that to anyone.

I really don't know what you mean by "which bodies match up with which type of inner beings?"
The question doesn't make any sense.

It's a fact that many trans people use being "born in the wrong body" when trying to describe how they feel. How can anyone who isn't trans really understand how that feels, we can only go by what we're told, and accept that the person knows themselves, like we do.

I don't see how that means a personality type has a matching body type, most bodies are pretty similar depending on whether they're male or female, regardless what the personality is like.

@Starlee, I’m going to give it another try. Did you see the many posts referring to the CEO of Stonewall equating being a lesbian (& therefore not including males in your dating pool) with sexual racism? This is a homophobic view from the top of Stonewall. Why have you not responded to this?

Another eye-opening thread.

What LGBA are proposing is an inferior service that excludes trans people. thus it is a waste of time and money and I am looking forward to seeing it go down the plughole.

Yep. Supporting female homosexuality, which obvs excludes males, is just anathema to some people.

LGBA really does bring the frothers out.

I see what you mean!

Starlee:
".... we can only go by what we're told, and accept that the person knows themselves, like we do."

An interesting example of a statement exemplifying its own falsity. Starlee thinks she understands the point, but plainly doesn't: she fails to know herself in this very regard.

Of course there are many cases where people wrongly think they know something about themselves. Self-deception is rife. "I'm cool, me"; "I look good with this ring in my nose"; "I'm going to be a successful entrepreneur selling cosmetics to my acquaintances"; "Wearing my wife's knickers makes me look feminine"; ... and, of course, "I am a woman," said by a man.

[There are darker cases, too, of course, some may suggest: "I love my mother" ... but let us draw a veil (!). The point is made well enough by the more superficial cases.]

... All cases in which we very much "go by" other than "what we're told" - and rightly so.

In fact, knowledge of oneself is actually difficult of achievement. Self-deception is part of the human condition. Sigmund Freud had an explanation of its roots; so (differently) did Jean-Paul Sartre. And there are other explanations on offer.

It is always interesting to come across a case, like Starlee here, whose self-deception involves self-deception ("like we do"): someone who deceives herself about deceiving herself. Sadly, this is far from uncommon nowadays. I suspect this may be in part an unintended consequence of the (laudable) present-day imperative of parents and educators to inculcate self-confidence in children. But I may be deceiving myself about that understanding.

Anyway, of course, regarding trans issues, we would be foolish to rule out a simple Freudian analysis of the self-deception involved.

Again.... your posts don't highlight what you intend them to. I am not surprised by now.

And thanks for the link... but we know that it happened, it doesn't actually require us to check. Readers will be noticing what you evidence and what you don't and that you keep avoiding the rest of the posts around successes just for LGB people in the UK. And only double down on this....

At least you have stopped trying to ridiculously detach the pre-LGB Alliance successes from the probability that the LGB Alliance founders were heavily involved in the Section 28, Military inclusion and same sex marriage actions (that largely also contributed to the NI campaign).

So, the Afghanistan is all you've got now???

And another post that doesn't highlight what you think it does.

If you bothered to read up thread you will have realised that that activist was using female single sex toilets that were clearly notified at the conference as being for females only.

So, what your post points out is that yes, it was the 'incident' we requested rhinestone to confirm they mean and that , yes, this male used the toilets that were clearly notified at the conference for being females only and a man with autism felt that was worth notifying to the security.

And that it further shows that some, hopefully very few but still some, transitioned males will indeed never respect female single sex spaces being set aside for the use solely of females even if it may cause females significant distress.

Well done.

Thank you.

You honestly think that an organisation that has a remit to get the voices of the people they are supposed to represent is showing responsibility to those people by 'boycotting' discussions they should be involved in, or at the very least, presentations/discussion that they can get a greater understanding of opposing views?

It is the very essence of irresponsibility.

And why the 'no debate' approach was shockingly harmful.

But please do crack on with your one liners. We can see just how convincing your arguments really are.

LGB Alliance were founded in 2019 - the year gay marriage was passed for NI - can you show me some examples of the founders being involved in the campaign?

so they decided to discriminate against trans women? Wow, at least they are open about it.

The hotline will go the same way as Lesbian and Gay News: www.lesbianandgaynews.com/

That is - down the pan.

There is little demand for GC nonsense in the LGBT community. If there was Lesbian and Gay News (which was set up to cater to GC Gays and Lesbians) would still be with us.

LGB Alliance were founded in 2019 - the year gay marriage was passed for NI - can you show me some examples of the founders being involved in the campaign?

Are you going to deny that the efforts of Stonewall for the NI campaign did not build significantly on the massive efforts of the rest of the UK campaign?

Are you that bereft of how campaigns and organisations work?

I don't need to show you any evidence at all. You are attempting to convince people that Stonewall did completely new work for NI... based on nothing of the past.

You are also attempting to convince people that the campaigning in NI did not start at the same time as the rest of the UK and that that extensive campaign had no influence in NI prior to 2019.

It is not the way organisations work, it is not the way campaigns work and it is a very foolish assertion to make.

Do you ever read what you write? Ever?

The UK EA allows single sex spaces to be just that, single sex. There is exemptions allowed under that provision for 'discrimination' as you put it.

How hilarious that both you and starlee have attempted to portray 'discrimination' as being wholly wrong. It is such simplistic thinking.

Some 'discrimination' is very acceptable, discrimination can be either positive or negative. And even 'negative' discrimination against one group can be 'positive' discrimination against another group. It is about balancing the needs of the group requiring that 'discrimination'.

If you live in a world where everything is polarised as 'us and them' and 'good and evil', I guess this would not occur to you.

There is little demand for GC nonsense in the LGBT community.

Ah. So you think Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual people only deserve to have resources if they are compliant with a specific political position? One which, in fact, negates their right to be homosexual and pressures them to have unwanted sex on the grounds that being homosexual is a kind of racism?

And when you say 'LGBT' you don't actually mean 'lesbian, bi, gay and trans people' but 'a collection of people compliant to a political position'. Because your 'community' clearly excludes LGBT people who aren't and sees them as mere human rubbish.

And then you wonder why some LGBT people want separate resources as far away as possible from your exclusionary, authoritarian, intolerant, 'you can only exist and have resources if you do what we say' political party?

I'm one of them. I want nothing to do with your political purity games at all. I can also be homosexual without doing what you say and being The Right Kind of Person according to you. I really can. I find your nutjobbery highly scary stuff.

Yes. And it was notified.

And this male decided to ignore it.

And security was alerted.

And your continued doubling down about it is just showing readers that when the exemptions are put in place and notified, some people will ignore them and make a big deal about it.

Thereby ensuring that all females who wish to use single sex spaces understand that those people have absolutely zero respect for others, and those who disrespect the needs of females are fully supported by other people who also believe that females should never have single sex spaces.

That is actually what your continued posting about that particular activist is highlighting.

As I said, some people really can't stand women organising on the basis of their own sexuality, and excluding all and any males.

Hence you being desperate for something that you consider unimportant and unpopular, to go 'down the plug hole' and 'down the pan'.

Most people who felt an organisation was this ineffective wouldn't spend so much time being obsessed with it.

My advice is to ignore it. Getting this wound up over something that you keep having to claim is really minor, while desperately wishing it would fail, can't be good for you.

I'd point out too that because of people like you and Stonewall, the 'LGBT community' is now only the politically compliant because you've driven everyone else out.

So that 'community' is now just the politically compliant. It's not representative of LGBT people as a whole. There has been no survey done of how many LGBT people now avoid Pride and Stonewall like the plague and want no part of the rainbow wagging glittery stuff, like there's no record of all the lesbian groups gone underground.

So again you're saying something that quite obviously isn't true. You cannot call it an LGBT community and speak for it - it's an LGBT Politically Compliant with Gender Ideology Community.

And that community is the one frantically trying to stop any LGBT organisations at all being able to exist to represent the LGBT people who have got away, and to stop them having a voice or anything at all for the sin of being heretics. Who insist on being homosexual and not pretending that sex doesn't exist.

What LGBA are proposing is an inferior service that excludes trans people. thus it is a waste of time and money and I am looking forward to seeing it go down the plughole.

This is so sad it's becoming funny.

A service focused on LGB people is inferior is it? Any service not centred upon and all about trans people is inferior? Any service that recognises and supports the specific needs of homosexuals is a waste of time and money?

You're insane. And quite appallingly homophobic. But do crack on illustrating it, you're explaining in detail why homosexual people should absolutely have resources separate from the T. Because those people don't just exist for T people to have something to stand on. Humans who are not T do actually have value and needs too. The planet does not revolve exclusively at all times around the T.

This cuts to the heart of it. We already have a Switchboard that caters to LGBT people that would be able to help an upset or confused young trans person.

Exactly. There is already a service of a young trans person.

You are continuing to state that a service just for LGB people should not be set up, that people who what only LGB advice should not have a choice of service.

Not only is that completely anti-competitive. It is incredibly totalitarian.

Do you honestly believe you are on the 'right side of history' with those opinions?

What LGBA are proposing is an inferior service that excludes trans people. thus it is a waste of time and money and I am looking forward to seeing it go down the plughole.

Sure. If it is an inferior service, then it will fail on its own. Why is there all this authoritarian energy to close it down from the start?

And you have no evidence that 'trans people' will be 'excluded' from assistance with LGB issues, and not directed to trans services it assistance is needed from a trans specific service.

A waste of money.... what... like the many rainbow crossings that are slippery when wet (I have slipped over on my local on) and that sight impaired people have found very hard to use ?

There is no evidence that it will not be a high quality service. No evidence at all.

Children often know if they're gay or trans, but for trans kids who don't know they're far more likely to get unbiased helped from an inclusive lgbt+ group than an anti-trans group.

Before puberty and the awakening of sexual attraction children might teally not know which sex they may be attracted to or not, but this is surely not the case for trans people, as most trans people state that gender identity is innate from birth. So why would a trans child contact a LGB charity instead of a T charity as they will have no doubt about the fact that they are not the same gender as their biological sex?

And wasn't it you who keeps telling me how supportive this forum is of trans people? Try reading your comment again and tell me you're trans supportive!

Starlee. You seem to have a very simple outlook on life. That is what I am pointing out.

So... being trans supportive means ignoring that there are some trans people and some trans activists (many who are not trans) who are making outrageously hateful statements and not being called out for them?

Being trans supportive means ignoring that these statements are being made and then echoed by a large group while declaring that the community is wonderfully 'inclusive' and everything is based on love and happiness?

No. Actually I am not going to ignore them. Why are you?

Is not being trans supportive fighting to have the best health care alternatives, and a range of them? Isn't being trans supportive fighting to ensure they are not discriminated against for employment, accommodation or many other aspects in life (in situations where sex doesn't matter)?

Again you have shown you have a very polarised viewpoint and can only accept absolute acceptance of demands, even when those demands are actually made by a small extreme group of trans people and are not reflective of all trans people.

I really have nothing else to say to you, you have been rude and arrogant all the way through, twisting what I say and resorting to insults while pretending to be oh so much more educated than the "poorly educated" trans community!

Are you projecting again? I think so.

Rude and arrogant? Just adding to whinging and other things...

twisting what I say... No, I am pointing out the deficiencies of logic and evidence in what you say.

And I will continue to do that because I know that this thread will be read over time by thousands of people. And your arguments don't stand up to scrutiny. Feel free to do the same thing with my posts. If you may have noticed, I have repeatedly asked you to provide evidence to substantiate your posts on page after page after page.

Where have I said that I am more educated than the 'poorly educated trans community'?

This is not the first time you have posted dishonestly.