LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

[pombear]

Fantastic news.

I would link to their Twitter announcement, but in usual state of play, Twitter has marked it ' may not be appropriate for people under 18'. A helpline planned for 13 to 25 year olds, planned by a panel of experts in child protection, education, helpline delivery, fundraising and psychology.

Yep - shut them down (much better to have helplines planned by IT workers who took their child to Thailand...)

As LGB Alliance state there is no dedicated national service of its kind for young LGB people in the UK.

I'm sure the Lottery Fund will be getting a lot of feedback right now, given the outpouring of hyperbole against LGB Alliance right now on Twitter.

So they may appreciate feedback from those who may see this as a positive move too:

""We really value your feedback. If you have a comment or complaint about the services that we provide, or if there's something important you think we should know, we'd love to hear it. Please email us at [email protected]"

When a transwoman attended the LGBA conference last year she was treated appallingly with a man screaming in her face that she shouldn't be there.

Do you mean the transitioned male who insisted on using the female single sex toilets despite it being clearly marked 'single sex' for female use?

Do you mean the man who is on the spectrum who had an issue with a transitioned male using those facilities despite that clear marking?

Did any one treat that transitioned male appallingly during any other time at the conference?

I am not at all opposed to a helpline for LGB youth, I've never said I am.
But any helpline worth their salt would be happy to signpost a person to a more relevant helpline for the specific help they need.

If kids who "believe they are trans" inadvertently call the LGBA without realising that they specifically oppose and exclude trans people they will be faced with someone telling them they're "more likely to grow up lesbian or gay than be trans" (they have stated that many times), not at all helpful for a confused youngster who need UN-biased advice.

More hyperbole again.

Please provide the evidence that LGB Alliance 'specifically oppose and exclude trans people'.

Please provide the evidence that LGB Alliance would not signpost a caller to a more relevant helpline for the specific help they need.

Please provide the script that LGB Alliance will use that will tell any vulnerable young person that they are "more likely to grow up lesbian or gay than be trans".

Your posts continue to highlight only your deep prejudice. You continue to not be able to provide evidence.

In fact, why don't you go and ask LGB Alliance, respectfully of course, what they plan to do. They will respond to respectful requests for information from what I have seen on twitter and listening to their representatives speak.

Why not clear all this up and go and ask them directly rather than this persecution that you have continued for page after page after page that is based on your supposition because you have produced no evidence to back up your claims at all.

So true.

I just had flashbacks to 25 years ago - my (now) ex-friend proudly boasted to me about how her nephew (who was in First Year of School), was so much smarter than my daughter ( who was also in First Year of School).

My friend failed to acknowledge her nephew was 2 years older than my daughter - so of course her nephew would appear smarter than my daughter - he was 6 years old, my daughter was only 4 years old.

Plus - her nephew had already finished his first year of schooling - but was repeating the first year (because he struggled with reading and other things) so even though he'd already experienced 1 year of schooling and my daughter had not, my ex-friend believed her nephew was smarter - and she believed in boasting about that to me.
(First Year of School in Australia)

My friend did suffer from some cognitive dissonance over many things - hence she became my ex-friend.

@NotKevinTurvey "No, anorexia is a form of body dysmorphia, just like gender dysphoria is. They are analogous conditions.
Telling a trans identifying male that they are really a woman is the same as telling someone with anorexia that they are really obese."

No, body dysmorphia (a mental illness) and gender dysphoria (NOT a mental illness) are two different things.
Dysphoria vs Dysmorphia: The Difference Between Gender and Body www.talkspace.com/blog/body-dysphoria-vs-dysmorphia/

If kids who "believe they are trans" inadvertently call the LGBA without realising that they specifically oppose and exclude trans people they will be faced with someone telling them they're "more likely to grow up lesbian or gay than be trans" (they have stated that many times), not at all helpful for a confused youngster who need UN-biased advice.

Where is your actual evidence for your claims @Starlee, that they will oppose and exclude trans people if they receive such phone calls?

Though - going by past behaviour of TRA's, no doubt they will be clogging up the phone lines, trolling the LGBA and preventing LGBA from providing a service to those that actually needed it, so LGBA will be forced to install some safeguards against these trolls.

@Artichokeleaves "You can witter all you like about LGB people wanting a separate voice to the TQ+ controlled groups because of their own interests being 'divisive' - you're actually wittering about 'don't let them get away'. You have no care or interest in LGB people you merely want them to stay in their box and continue to usefully serve TQ+ interests. And saying 'no, I won't do as you say and will not indoctrinate kids with this political ideology' is not 'hate'. You really have no idea what actual 'hate' is if you can use it this flippantly. Many of the people who want out of the LGBT+ never ending acronym that is TQ+ political and controlled? They do. They were there."

Stop telling me what I "actually" mean, you are so wrong. I am Bi, have many friends and family members who are LGB and care very much for them all.
You seem to think that because I also support trans people I must be against LGB? How bigoted is that?
It's is entirely possible to support all, to be inclusive, which the LGBA most certainly isn't, I have seen the most appalling transphobia on their social media, real hate and that's not being flippant! I have yet to see any homophobic content from Stonewall and other LGBTQ+ groups, they have always been and remain fully inclusive.
I don't deny some want the T out, but there's many more who want them included, LGBTQ+ has enormous global support, there's no point you denying that. They were also 'there', I was there, from 1970 onwards, and my opinion is as valid as anyone's.

Starlee:
"... their mind/soul/psyche, whatever you call the essence that makes them 'them' ..."

One of the most useful functions the internet serves is to remind us of the unthinking ignorance and associated prejudices of so many of our fellow citizens.

This poster Starlee, for instance, probably thinks such talk of 'the essence that makes them 'them'' is uncontrovertible and universally accepted. Not the least smidgeon of knowledge of the difficulties inherent in such talk. No thought of Aristotle, Aquinas, Hume ... no inkling that other metaphysical traditions (Buddhist? ...) might take a different stance ... no knowledge, even, of Ryle, say, or other more contemporary thinkers closer to home.

And why should there be? It seems so obvious this is how things are. Hey, Starlee?

All you straight-up Cartesians (look it up, Starlee!); some of us think you are wrong. But, really, we do not need to argue the case. All that is important is that we do not allow such ignorance and associated prejudice influence over our institutions -- schools, laws, health services etc.

We do not allow believers in the Angel Moroni to determine what we teach our kids and so on. (Unless, maybe, we live in Utah.) We allow believers in Transubstantiation to practice their rites freely, while denying their right as a group to proselytise our children or influence our foreign policy. And so on.

Same for believers in independent 'essences' of people like Starlee and all the rest. (Or it should be.) We have good reason to believe them to be flat-out wrong: but, well, let a hundred flowers bloom, fill yer boots, Starlees. Just stop with the demands that the rest of society fall in with your nonsense.

Starlee and co: try to consider other points of view; read David Hume, Gilbert Ryle, Derek Parfit ...; think!

And, whether or not, just stop with your demands to medicalise children on the basis of your nonsensical metaphysics. Just stop. Enough is enough.

They don't want the 'T out', they want the right to organise alone without TQ+ politics telling them that they have to stop being homosexual because it doesn't suit TQ+ politics.

It's you who is framing the wish to leave and organise alone as an unacceptable act of aggression against TQ+ people. It's you who is framing homosexual people protesting this oppression, suppression and harassment/attempts at conversion therapy BY TQ+ politics as an unacceptable act of aggression against TQ+ politics.

There's a word for this 'you can never leave or be independent of control without punishment' thinking. It's banned on MN, which is another bizarre fig leaf over an unpleasant but obvious reality, but this is a key feature of what it involves. By their deeds shall you know them.

I have yet to see any homophobic content from Stonewall and other LGBTQ+ groups, they have always been and remain fully inclusive.

This is not true.

It is factually, in reality, not true.

"Nobody should ever be pressured into dating, or pressured into dating people they aren't attracted to. But if you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions."

@Starlee Who said this. LGB Alliance or Stonewall?

To say there is a 'mismatch' between mind and body, we would first need to know what a 'match' looks like.

Can anyone, ANYONE, say - clearly and unambiguously - which types of mind match which sex?

Starlee has now ignored this question several times, despite being the one to claim there are 'matches' and 'mismatches'.

Yet they tell me to 'go and learn from trans people'. But those that post here are similarly unable to answer that question.

Do they not know, or do they not want to say for some reason?

Remember when Stonewall tweeted that being gay was being same-sex attracted, then had to delete it because they no longer claim that?

Lots of people found that homophobic.

I have never said that anyone supporting LGB means they are 'anti-trans', most are not, and I have actually pointed out several times that many trans people are ALSO lgb.
I have said the LGBA and other GC groups are anti-trans, which they demonstrate constantly.

LGBTQ+ groups are not anti-anyone, they are fully inclusive as they should be. It's only LGBA supporters who want the TQ+ removed, most LGB people also support Trans people. As do the majority of the general public, according to every poll I've seen.

LGBTQ+ groups are not anti-anyone, they are fully inclusive as they should be.

Again, as patiently as I can, NO they are not.

They are inclusive only of homosexuals who accept guidance to not be homosexual when it comes to relationships based on TQ+ politics. The head of Stonewall has said in public interviews, which are evidenced, that homosexuality is like racism. In court only days ago, it was said that homosexuality is like apartheid for having a sexuality that rejects the other sex regardless of their TQ+ identity.

These homosexuals are excluded. This is why those homosexual people like Simon Fanshawe who founded Stonewall have left to start all over again with the LGBA, to escape this oppression and rejection of their homosexuality.

You can keep repeating that these groups are inclusive of homosexuals, that gravity doesn't exist, that there are fairies at the bottom of your garden - it's obviously and evidentially not true .

I have actually pointed out several times that many trans people are ALSO lgb.

Do you understand yet what the “LGB” in “LGB Alliance” means? You’ve made that point several times, yes, but you (remarkably) still don’t seem to understand that you are talking about a different group of people.

How can any LGB group that supports TQ+ not be homophobic?

Try and think about it for a minute @Starlee

I have said the LGBA and other GC groups are anti-trans, which they demonstrate constantly.

And have yet to produce one bit of convincing evidence. It is really worth us repeating this every single time you post this. To be fair, if anyone chose to report some of your posts they would be deleted for the negative generalisations that you keep making.

Like that phrase.

This is a negative generalisation being made and you cannot even say you made it based on supplied evidence as a rhetoric device.

LGBTQ+ groups are not anti-anyone, they are fully inclusive as they should be. It's only LGBA supporters who want the TQ+ removed, most LGB people also support Trans people.

Repeatedly posting this just makes this all seem like propaganda. It is really surreal to see this claimed in light of LGB history.

As do the majority of the general public, according to every poll I've seen.

Yes. This is true. And most posters on MN FWR are supportive of trans people too. We have been telling you this since you first posted on this thread.

'Supporting' trans people does not mean giving them every thing they demand though. That would be causing people great harm in fact.

And it doesn't mean that LGB Alliance are not a suitable organisation to run a LGB helpline for young people.

In fact, LGB Alliance do support trans people who are same sex attracted . We have also told you that but you are so deeply entrenched in your prejudices that you cannot acknowledge this fact nor can you produce evidence to substantiate your prejudiced claims.

When a transwoman attended the LGBA conference last year she was treated appallingly with a man screaming in her face that she shouldn't be there.

If that's true - and at this point I'm honestly past the point of asking for evidence because there never is any - would you like to compare it to how the homosexual people who want to be homosexual without TQ+ dominance, harassment, exclusion and repression have been treated by those acting in the name of TQ+ politics?

The barbed wire wrapped baseball bats for beating them that were so proudly held by males in blood stained t shirts?

The death threats?

The corrective rape threats?

The symbols and threats of lynching?

The throwing out of lesbians from Pride?

Every single women's rights meeting that has dealt with kettling, screaming, hammering on the doors and walls, people in balaclavas controlling access, false reports to the police trying to get them arrested, the 60 year old woman who was punched, the smoke bomb set off near Grenfell towers?

Fgs, your double standards are ridiculous.

I will wait Artichoke, but I suspect it was the well known extreme trans activist that used the female toilets knowing that the conference had adopted the policy of toilets being 'single sex' as their right under the EA2010 and a man who attended the conference saw them and reacted.

I will await also for evidence that that extreme trans activist was in anyway abused outside them being caught as a male using the female single sex toilets clearly marked as female single sex.

Convenient wasn't it that a transitioned male non-member of the LGB Alliance just so happened to make a drama out of using a female single sex toilet that was marked as such at the LGB Alliance conference.

Again... these 'gotcha' moments that keep getting posted are really not showing what the posters actually intend...

LGBTQ+ groups are not anti-anyone, they are fully inclusive as they should be.

I am a GC heterosexual woman I wasn't aware they were inclusive of me. Am I part of the '+'? What campaigning have they done for other women like me? I must have missed it. 🤔

Or perhaps they are not fully inclusive after all but actually exclusive?

Again... these 'gotcha' moments that keep getting posted are really not showing what the posters actually intend...

And the more we keep pointing this out, hopefully posters will start actually engaging with the topic at hand with some posts that show some evidence for why LGB Alliance is not suitable for running a helpline for LGB young people.

Currently.... the scarcity of that evidence is being clearer and clearer.

Strangely I am not offended that LGB Alliance excludes me from their representation. They are exclusive as they should be.

and amazing that other TW at the LGBA Conference managed to abide by the policy of single sex toilets being single sex.

Leaves one to wonder why that particular TW deliberately didn't.

Yes. This is true. And most posters on MN FWR are supportive of trans people too. We have been telling you this since you first posted on this thread.

I don't understand where the idea that FWR doesn't support trans people comes from, if someone could point out a transphobic post on here I'd be grateful.

If anything this is one of the more welcoming online spaces for trans people.