Waitrose delivery driver

[MsMoorhead]

Kellie Jay-Keen reported by her Waitrose delivery driver!

Oh Datun, nicely put.

Trans ideology is not simply based on the belief that gender identity doesn’t always match your sex - it is based on the belief that someone's gender identity is more important that theirs, or someone else's, sex.

Datun in fine form, yet again 👏. You're the voice of reason on this board.

Gender identity is a made up term.

It's an amazing fix, isn't it, gender identity. You can claim you have one, but then suddenly all the rights required are those based on biological sex.

Spaces, etc, are segregated by biological sex. What is the point of segregating them by gender identity? What even is it? It's wanting to inhabit the stereotypes that society imposes on the opposite sex. What's the point of segregation by stereotype?

How was the delivery driver different to any other male?

What is the actual difference that means we need to segregate on the basis of it?

KJK was being rude by deliberately misgendering a transwoman. It’s commonly accepted that that is a rude thing to do.

KJK was stating her opinion in a conversation and so fucking well what if you consider what she said rude, your statement below says you don't advocate for laws against being rude and, as has been pointed out repeatedly there is no such law or crime of misgendering:

As for the bit about laws against being rude, I’ve never advocated any such thing. So you can toss that strawman on the nearest bonfire.

High time you tossed all your strawmen on the nearest bonfire.

I don’t have the energy to go into it with her

I appreciate and understand what you are saying

but youd go right off on one if someone said it to you…just ignore

Discovereads Can I ask why you even care so much? Is someone in your life trans?

I totally understand if you want to be supportive to them, but you can't just sacrifice logic, common sense, and women's rights on the back of it.

The person, if there is such a person, will always encounter people who simply don't believe there is such a thing as gender identity and an awful lot more people who won't accept that it's more important than biological sex.

It clearly seemed to be based on “men” wanting to piss in womens toilets as the delivery person so delightfully put it.

What are the TWAW and TWAM mantras about if not the basis of trans ideology that gender identity trumps sex and trans people must use the spaces and services aligned with their gender identity and not their sex?

What are the TWAW and TWAM mantras about if not the basis of trans ideology that gender identity trumps sex and trans people must use the spaces and services aligned with their gender identity and not their sex?

It is. If it wasn't, we could all just pack up and go home.

The whole point of the term gender identity is that it's validated. Otherwise it's useless. And the way to validate it is, with a quick sleight of hand, by determinedly using biological sex. Mostly of the female variety.

It's the height of enough for discovereads to complain that Posie wasn't validating the delivery driver, an entire thread about it, in fact, and then in the next breath say that validation is not a central tenet of the ideology.

Absolutely Datun but it's typical of gender/trans ideology advocates - contradictory as fuck, circular and illogical.

KJK was being rude by deliberately misgendering a transwoman. It’s commonly accepted that that is a rude thing to do

Being rude is not a crime, if it was I'd never be let out of prison. I'm a fuck sight ruder than kjk was in this instance.

It is not commonly accepted that "misgendering" is either a word or rude thing to do.
FWIW if a certain section of society like to make up words, they can also make up some words for being transwomen, therefore leaving alone women, woman, female.

Do they though? I would have thought service providers obligations are similar to employers. They can't just stop delivering to any black person who swears unless they stop delivering to everyone who swears. They can't stop delivering to christians - unless the christians harrass the drivers. They can't stop deliving to GC people likewise, unless harrassment has occurred.

It this case harrassment has not occurred - assuming we trust KJKs account, so ceasing deliveries would be to discriminate against her for beliefs. Indeed it is the driver here who is the concern with regards his interactions with women customers.

@Discovereads Throughout history we have divided by humanity by sex. Can you justify a switch to doing it by gender identity? Use logic, reason, morality and compassion in your answer, and consider the needs of all groups protected under the 2010 Equality Act?

Who's being rude? I think it's completely obnoxious to expect the whole world to bow down to your personal delusion. I hate this term 'misgendering'. I agree with Helen Joyce's essay that pronouns should be mainly expected by family and friends, not strangers who don't have any obligation to keep up a fantasy.

Particularly when that person is being so unprofessional.

Gender identities are infinite, this from Google

How many gender identities are there?

There is no fixed number of gender identities. They occur on a spectrum, which really means that the possibilities are infinite. Each person might find that a certain point on the spectrum feels most comfortable and accurate, and this may change over time. People do not know precisely what influences gender identity. Some genetic factors and factors that a person is born with may play a role.

if gender identities are infinite why do we not have infinite spaces for each one?
Why is it only ever trans women who are mentioned?
What is a gender identity? In any language you like.
If women have to budge up for any gender identity, which will men have to budge up for? Women cant carry this burden alone, we already don't have enough space just for women alone, add in all the men who have a different gender identity there will only be 10 men left for the men only spaces, seems very unfair given the previous point that we already are lacking in spaces.
Can you imagine most of the male prison estate of around 14k men all wanting in the womens estate of around 4k? Itll be like a cattle market.
How can we "see" a gender identity? What gives away that a man is a trans woman? Or in fact any other gender?

That’s not the case that harassment must occur in order for a business to refuse service. You can refuse service for any reason so long as it is not discriminatory. Refusing service to a customer because they verbally abused an employee is not discriminatory.

@Discovereads Throughout history we have divided by humanity by sex. Can you justify a switch to doing it by gender identity? Use logic, reason, morality and compassion in your answer, and consider the needs of all groups protected under the 2010 Equality Act?

Yes, and how well did division by sex work out for women? You seem to be forgetting that the purpose and outcome of division was sex was the oppression of women.

As for division “by gender identity” why would we even consider that?

@Datun,

Please point out where in this “validation” is? Because the below is what you said was the basis of trans ideology:

Because the point is the entire ideology advocates for the violation of women and girls boundaries

Which I objected to. Not seeing “validation” in there at all……

@Datun
Gender identity is a made up term.

All terms that describe real intangibles are made up terms. These include terms such as money, intellectual property, sexuality, all emotions, the economy, political spectrum, and so on.

Lol. I’d go off if someone said what I said to her to me?
Much worse has already been said to me on this thread many many times and I’ve ignored it.
So no, I think I’ve proven I would not.

😀

ok discover

That's right. The ideology advocates for the violation of women's boundaries surrounding their their spaces, indeed, to their very name, as a means of validation.

You have to validate a man who says he's a woman, by giving him access to spaces where he's not wanted. There would be no boundary violation, if validation wasn't demanded.

On this thread alone, you've complained that Posie should have validated the delivery driver by calling him the sex he isn't, but she is.

I can describe to you what money is.

But you can't describe to me what gender identity is, other than a craving for stereotypes.

Nor how it changes - sometimes daily, even hourly. 😁

And I don't think anyone has even attempted, much less succeeded, to explain why we should segregate on that basis (whilst keeping a pretence at sex segregation in place, as much as possible, obviously, in order to provide the validation).

I can describe to you what money is.But you can't describe to me what gender identity is

Not that that you’ve ever asked, but I can describe to you what gender identity is. There are countless articles and entire books written about gender identity by scientists, philosophers, journalists and regular people. It’s in the dictionary FFS for anyone to look up if they so wish.

I think the issue is that you know very well what gender identity is, and I’m sure you can actually describe it but you have an internal personal belief that rejects it.

I fail to see how KJK simply being polite to the transwoman delivery driver would have in any way “violated womens boundaries”. It costs nothing to be civil when interacting with a delivery person. And Im talking about at the very start of the encounter, before anyone had any reason to claim they were provoked.

Ive taken the time to look her up as I’d never heard of her before this thread and she’s a deeply unpleasant person. I watched a video of her target and do the same shit to a Transwoman at a US swimming meet for no reason other than she appears to be triggered by long haired transwomen. I’ve seen that she knowingly shared a platform by collaborating on a published video with a known white supremacist who wants a white ethno-state in Canada and defended her collaboration with him saying “it’s good enough they hate trans too”. I’ve watched her mocking the Black Panthers by naming some TRAs “black Pampers” and to this day refusing to see how misappropriating a key part of the struggle for equal civil rights for black people and making it a joke is extremely offensive.

So you’d never heard of KJK before this thread? Have only looked her up 22 pages into a thread on which you are the most prolific poster? And you argued so persistently, so doggedly against her, for 22 pages, you were so very invested in proving that her protection of her boundaries in her own home was transphobic, without knowing anything about her?

yeah.