Waitrose delivery driver

[MsMoorhead]

Kellie Jay-Keen reported by her Waitrose delivery driver!

This a lot of this about. There are a few other threads which have been swamped by trans activist arguments that are very low on logic/material reality/legal basis and very high on brow-beating into submission with walls of text in endless posts. It all looks very same-y. It also involves a great deal of twisting and misrepresentation.

When I look at these trans activist arguments it occurs to me I'm seeing the best they can do, and that makes me think that, ultimately, they're going to lose.

I've followed this whole thread, watched the full video and read every comment. Yes - the 'l'll take my time' comment is threatening. But I've not seen anyone comment on what, for me, was the most chilling aspect of KJK's account.

5:44 - 5:55 in the video. "He told me he used womens spaces. I was polite until he said he liked using the spaces my teenage daughter uses, including changing rooms and toilets"

Liked. He likes uses the spaces where teenage girls get undressed. He told her who exactly who he was in that comment.

But I've not seen anyone comment on what, for me, was the most chilling aspect of KJK's account.

I'm going to phrase this delicately. I should think a number of us shared the chill of that moment and we also know that a discussion of it is unlikely to stand here.

I'm up for trying even in that knowledge.

We have all met people who delight in transgressing boundaries and do it from a secure position in the power asymmetry. KJK's description of her daughter as quiet and averse to confrontation is probably one that would fit many of the young people in common areas like changing rooms and toilets. And yet, this Waitrose employee (presumably, not a self-employed driver or subcontractor) felt safe to declare it and was confident that Waitrose would act in support of that stance.

Unless Waitrose was given a very partial account of the matter and might respond differently after considering KJK's letter.

I should think a number of us shared the chill of that moment and we also know that a discussion of it is unlikely to stand here.

Yep. I started posting and then deleted it. I would have received a strike for any one of the factual sentences I was typing.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus I know we have to be very careful with this subject. It sits at the heart of KJK complaint. She was polite, up to this point. Her words, no inference or interpretation required.

She is fully justified in how she responded after that, even if her language was what Waitrose probably classifies as abusive from a customer.

Further still, did this deliver driver think they were the one to change Kjk's mind?
And then thought being intransigent and argumentative would be the way to change anyones mind, let alone a woman who has started an entire campaign about it?
Truly mind bending stuff.

I would agree that hearing somebody state that they did this transgressive act and would continue to do so is the point at which many sensible people would revise their risk assessment of that self-admittedly boundary transgressing person.

I'm sure that there would be several posters upbraiding KJK for not recognising that admission as a red flag, had anything more untoward occurred.

One of the most dispiriting parts of the whole account was that KJK didn't report it initially and I should think a number of us know why. We are so inured to the transgression of our boundaries and disrespectful behaviour, that we couldn't afford to expend our cognitive and emotional resources by following up on all of them.

So let me get this straight:

KJK orders a Waitrose delivery
The delivery driver is a man
The delivery driver asks KJK about her “adult human female” window stickers
KJK briefly explains them
delivery driver says I am a transwoman and we are women
KJK says I don’t agree*, please don’t use women’s spaces
delivery driver says I will if I want to
KJK says politely “please leave my house”
delivery driver says “I’ll take my time”
KJK says eff off and get off my property

And Waitrose tell HER she’s wrong and they won’t deliver to her?!

SO many things are wrong here:

The delivery driver was deliberately provocative towards a customer
“I will if I want to” = I don’t care about your boundaries or the equality act
The delivery driver refused to leave straight away
”I’ll take my time” is entitled, provocative, rude and intimidating
Waitrose writing to KJK to threaten withdrawal of services

*which is a belief worthy of respect in a democratic society after Forstater

Given that poster's distortions on this thread, even disputing Motorina's words with Motorina, that's an interesting choice

not really…it was a basic summation which set out each step. I could see from it that the driver started the arguing and that KJK only swore AFTER the driver said ‘I’ll take my time’

just because i took that particular post as a starting point to state my opinion doesn’t mean that i take every post as gospel

this particular poster has been around for a while

If you've developed a "thicker skin than most" well done. Me too, but I would still recognise an attempt to intimidate even if it wasn't successful. But we're closer to agreeing than you might realise. You call it a "feeble, must have the last word" statement. Others call it "intimidating", what it is for sure is an attempt to show that they have the power in that situation, the power specifically to choose the extent and manner of if and when they'll comply with the instruction.

Whether this is felt by the woman getting the delivery as "intimidating" or "childish" is going to depend on a number of factors but one of them is absolutely the comparative physiologies of the two participants so I refuse to pretend it's always irrelevant. If my 13 year old daughter says that she will put her ironing away "in her own time" => childish, if a guy in the pub tells you he'll take his hand off your ass "in his own time" you start yelling expletives at him. the context is everything here isn't it?

Certainly it seems fair to say she was not particularly intimidated but many other women commenting can sense that in the same situation they or other women they know would be. Men scare women, often on purpose, often for "fun", if by fun you mean showing they have the power to make you uncomfortable and ignore your boundaries and wishes. If that has truly never happened to you that's great, I very much hope it never happens to my daughter. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

You missed this crucial aspect out:

He said he liked using the spaces my teenage daughter uses, including changing rooms and toilets.

She states she was polite up until that point.

I've just been to Waitrose to pick up a mixed olive ciabatta for lunch

WHY is ANY woman giving Waitrose their money?

We need to boycott them, until they discipline drivers who try to intimidate and argue with customers.

We're not allowed to be proud to be women, of course. The word has to be expunged.

WHY is ANY woman giving Waitrose their money?
Because we're all individual people with our own thoughts and opinions maybe and don't have to agree on everything?

I didn't have time to go elsewhere, the Lidl opposite don't sell them and it was an emergency.

Never again.

Well, you've never been known to agree with anybody, have you? 🤣

Well, you've never been known to agree with anybody, have you? 🤣
Was agreeing with someone on a thread earlier today actually so I do have my moments 😁

Please give feedback to Waitrose - boycotting them (except when you need an emergency olive ciabatta) without telling them why is not that helpful. From my brief experience working there, customer feedback does get reported and acted upon. Staff, sorry, "partners" are encouraged to use their initiative to help customers, but treating a customer like this should not be tolerated.

Is this a pisstake?

Waitrose are talking the piss putting this sign outside the store in response to the KJK video

It’s worrying that you say you participate in legal processes and yet you have such a misunderstanding of the Equalities Act.

That wasn’t me. That was Motorina.

Pride sign appears outside Waitrose during the Pride month of June.

And you seriously think they especially had these made up because of a YouTube video of a woman complaining about a transwoman delivery driver that hasn’t gone viral? And that “Waitrose is rubbing their hatred of women in our faces”?

I mean that is just batshit. I’ve sat and read all kinds of insults to my intelligence, education, logic, intentions, and so on. And then you lot post stuff like this and I have to think being GC is like being in a cult with delusions of persecution.

@Welivetherain said the sign wasn't there on Tuesday which was the 7th of June and only appeared after posie's video on Thursday, it's pretty obvious that Waitrose are intentionally doubling down on TWAW in retaliation.

I'm reasonably confident I haven't said anything about the Equalities Act. I'd ask you not to misrepresent what I say, but the last time I made that polite request of you you posted that you had chosen to ignore me.

Are you sure you're not a Waitrose driver?