Ovarian cancer definition

ProclivityForPyrotechnics · 2022-06-08T06:12:29+00:00

• Ovarian cancer affects the 2 small organs (ovaries) that store the eggs needed to make babies. • Anyone with ovaries can get ovarian cancer, but it mostly affects those over 50. • Sometimes ovarian cancer runs in families. • The symptoms of ovarian cancer, such as bloating, are not always obvious. • Ovarian cancer is often diagnosed late, but early diagnosis can mean it is more treatable. On the nhs website. They've removed the word women

Pennox · 08/06/2022 07:15

Disgusting travesty. The only people affected by ovarian cancer are women.

Original poster

ProclivityForPyrotechnics · 08/06/2022 07:18

It is disgusting, it was on sky news this morning

OP posts:

EdinburghFeminist · 08/06/2022 07:20

If they had written 'but it mostly affects women over 50' it wouldn't be excluding transmen - it would still have been 'inclusive'.

delusionsofadequacy · 08/06/2022 07:22

And yet the nhs page for prostate cancer still uses male and men... I wonder why?

lassof · 08/06/2022 07:22

If English is not your first language ... or you are not an educated speaker of English ... how are you supposed to know if you are an ovary-owner???

poshme · 08/06/2022 07:23

I've written to my MP asking her to ask the health secretary why they can't use clear language, and why woman can't be used for ovarian and uterine cancers, but man can be used for prostate cancer.

NecessaryScene · 08/06/2022 07:25

They're actually writing totally information-free text because of this:

"Anyone with ovaries can get ovarian cancer"
"Womb cancer is cancer that affects the womb."
"Cervical cancer is a cancer that’s found anywhere in the cervix."

They've actually forced themselves into circular definitions to avoid mentioning sex.

The sentences are placeholders for real information they feel they can't give, but they recognise they're supposed to have some sort of introduction, but it's impossible when you can't state the most fundamental thing.

Theredjellybean · 08/06/2022 07:27

I'm not sure I can get so worked up about this.
The wording is true... Anyone with overaries can get ovarian cancer.
There can be no doubt or misunderstanding .
They could have put "any biologically female person with ovaries"
But they couldn't have put "any woman" as some women have had theirs removed for other medical reasons.
Though they are yet to update advice regarding medical conditions affecting biological males.. So advice on prostate cancer.. Is it going to say "anyone with a prostate"
Wasn't there a thread recently about this and someone had a response from NHS saying they were changing all advice but it was a big piece of work...lots of comments about how the "female" advice was being done first.

NecessaryScene · 08/06/2022 07:32

The wording is true... Anyone with overaries can get ovarian cancer.

But it's virtually meaningless. Who are these people with ovaries?

Reading that description, I can easily imagine as a non-native English speaker misinterpreting that as talking about testicular cancer,:the "2 small organs (ovaries) that store the eggs needed to make babies".

334bu · 08/06/2022 07:34

Yes all about ensuring that the word woman has nothing to do with female biology, as it would then exclude male people who identify as women. To include gender non conforming female people, all that would have been necessary was to say women and people with ovaries.. All about the patriarchy and not excluding males!

LunaLights · 08/06/2022 07:37

It isn’t just people with ovaries, though…. Even if a woman has had a hysterectomy with ovaries removed, they can still get ovarian cancer. This is dangerous pandering language that will result in deaths.

LemonRedwood · 08/06/2022 07:38

I'm not sure I can get so worked up about this.
The wording is true... Anyone with overaries can get ovarian cancer.
There can be no doubt or misunderstanding .
They could have put "any biologically female person with ovaries"
But they couldn't have put "any woman" as some women have had theirs removed for other medical reasons.

There can be doubt and misunderstanding, because women who have had their ovaries removed can still get ovarian cancer. It's much rarer, true, but can happen.

So really they should have said 'anyone with ovaries and some people without ovaries can get ovarian cancer'. Or maybe they could just simplify it and say that ovarian cancer affects women

NecessaryScene · 08/06/2022 07:39

It isn’t just people with ovaries, though…. Even if a woman has had a hysterectomy with ovaries removed, they can still get ovarian cancer. This is dangerous pandering language that will result in deaths.

I did not know that, and would have certainly assumed that to not be the case from that text.

FOJN · 08/06/2022 07:47

Even if a woman has had a hysterectomy with ovaries removed, they can still get ovarian cancer.

I didn't know this either.

I'm off to do some research.

NecessaryScene · 08/06/2022 07:57

So this more "inclusive" language is actually wrongly excluding more than it allegedly includes?

Number of women who've had hysterectomies must be greater than the number of women who pretend that they're not women or that they don't know they're women.

But this whole thing is nonsense - you're causing actual real lack of understanding - actual real harm - and the benefit is people who pretend they don't know what "men" or "women" mean, and would have understood the original perfectly well, get a warm fuzzy glow?

This is nonsense. It "includes" no-one, because no-one was excluded to start with. Apart from men, correctly.

Theredjellybean · 08/06/2022 08:04

My understanding, and I am only a GP, is it primary peritoneal cancer that you get, if you've had ovaries removed.
This is a malignancy in the cells in the peritoneum that are original cells that ovarian tissue developed from.
It is sometimes referred to in literature as possible to get ovarian cancer after oophrectomy but in fact it is primary peritoneal cancer.
It is interesting, as I felt it was pretty obvious and very clear... Anyone with ovaries can get ovarian cancer...
Plain in English.
But appreciate that others see it differently

HipTightOnions · 08/06/2022 08:06

We may know we have ovaries but how are the next generation supposed to know?

"You have ovaries because you're a..."

Theredjellybean · 08/06/2022 08:09

I can't remember the thread recently which was discussing the wording about some other health screening, was it cervical smears???
The wording was so wordy... Trying to be inclusive, something like "women with cervixs, transmen, people with a cervix, anyone else.. Blah blah..." I remember thinking why don't they just say anyone with a cervix.
If you have a cervix you can have a smear... If you don't you can't.
End off.

MNSureIsBreachin · 08/06/2022 08:11

Theredjellybean · 08/06/2022 07:27

I'm not sure I can get so worked up about this.
The wording is true... Anyone with overaries can get ovarian cancer.
There can be no doubt or misunderstanding .
They could have put "any biologically female person with ovaries"
But they couldn't have put "any woman" as some women have had theirs removed for other medical reasons.
Though they are yet to update advice regarding medical conditions affecting biological males.. So advice on prostate cancer.. Is it going to say "anyone with a prostate"
Wasn't there a thread recently about this and someone had a response from NHS saying they were changing all advice but it was a big piece of work...lots of comments about how the "female" advice was being done first.

There was but those comments were a load of guff - mens ones are being done at the same time

Theredjellybean · 08/06/2022 08:15

@HipTightOnions
Excellent point.
My view (appreciate its only mine) is wording, teaching etc should focus on biologically female/male.
That no you cannot change sex... You can choose whatever flipping gender you feelz...want...yiu can be a bloody carrot if you want but biology is not changeable.
Medical advice needs to reflect this... Hence the "all people with....." wording does seem to me to be basic way of getting a cross who needs what screening etc.
It could be "all biological females...."

NecessaryScene · 08/06/2022 08:17

I remember thinking why don't they just say anyone with a cervix. If you have a cervix you can have a smear... If you don't you can't.

But that assumes people know what a cervix is. You're overestimating the general public's anatomy knowledge.

Even ignoring uneducated native speakers, I can assure you the population of non-native speakers who wouldn't know the word "cervix" is far, far greater than the alleged "inclusion" group here.

The extra words are necessary to try to explain who we mean.

All of it could be skipped if we just used the word "woman" in the way we've always used it, because everyone already understands what it is. It will certainly be one of the first words learnt by any non-native speaker.

This pretence that "woman" means something other than "adult human female", and then avoiding using it due to that pretence, is what is making the mess. So let's stop pretending. When you're in a hole, stop digging.

Good bit from Jon Pike on Andrew Doyle's GB News talking about the mess we've got ourselves into by taking away words - in this case "female": twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1533523518607998979

CooCooMoo · 08/06/2022 08:22

As someone who had ovarian cancer at a young age I find this gut wrenching. Having a full hysterectomy in my early 30s make me feel like less of a woman, all this just compounds the issue.

I was also told by my oncologist that I could get ovarian cancer again. Not sure how this squares with the 'people with ovaries' line.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/06/2022 08:23

If you have a cervix you can have a smear... If you don't you can't.

Something like 48% of women don't know what a cervix is. Clear plain language is needed. You might be a GP, but you don't understand the communications issue.

Theredjellybean · 08/06/2022 08:23

I disagree..if you do not have English as your first language and your a transman and you saw a poster say in the GP surgery saying "women must have cervical screening", I think there is just as much chance you'd think you didn't need this as your a "man" in your mind.
And we might not like it but "woman" now to many people does not exclusively mean a biologically female adult.
Hence the need to try to make medical advice clear as to who needs what.

ThomasPenman · 08/06/2022 08:23

And if woman doesn't mean adult human female, then why don't we have a word that does mean adult human females. It would certainly be very useful in this instance. We grant animals with the dignity of having words for the female sex - sow, doe etc. why don't we respect human females in the same way?