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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ovarian cancer definition

91 replies

ProclivityForPyrotechnics · 08/06/2022 07:12

• Ovarian cancer affects the 2 small organs (ovaries) that store the eggs needed to make babies.
• Anyone with ovaries can get ovarian cancer, but it mostly affects those over 50.
• Sometimes ovarian cancer runs in families.
• The symptoms of ovarian cancer, such as bloating, are not always obvious.
• Ovarian cancer is often diagnosed late, but early diagnosis can mean it is more treatable.

On the nhs website. They've removed the word women

OP posts:
Ceridwenn · 08/06/2022 13:06

The fact that male cancers still mention male tells us everything we need to know. Women are still thought of as second class citizens. It is eraser of women and our rights and it is insidious.

Pennox · 08/06/2022 13:53

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 08/06/2022 10:41

The issue is that we tell trans women that they can become female. Or rather, some people working in trans issues have told them this. The literature says "male to female transition" and that's not true. No one can change sex. That lie is doing harm to people who are vulnerable, and being exploited by those who have nefarious reasons for wanting to be seen as women.

This exactly.

I've long thought how cruel it all is. Rich middle aged men have peddled the lie that people can change their sex when they really can't amd actually trying to leads to long term medical issues and damage to sexual function. And now we've got a whole generation of entitled/ traumatised / ASD (take your pick) kids and young people that have to have a crashing realisation at some point that it was all a big lie and virtually no one outside of their bubbles believes that TWAW never mind can somehow magically become the opposite sex.

You can see it at the moment with the cyclist and when they come on here. Butt hurt horror and astonishment that women haven't just stayed kind and capitulated and pretended to believe in their fantasies. Its cruel really.

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 08/06/2022 14:02

ProclivityForPyrotechnics · 08/06/2022 07:18

It is disgusting, it was on sky news this morning

That’s good news. Mainstream media starting to notice and report on this insanity. The wheels are starting to come off the gender juggernaut.

Tagliatellme · 08/06/2022 14:15

Apologies if someone else has already posted this, but Sajid Javid has said:

“Well, look, I haven’t seen that particular report, but I have heard of instances like that and I don’t think it’s right.

“You won’t be surprised to know that, as the health secretary, I think that your sex matters, your biological sex is incredibly important to make sure you get the right treatment, the very best treatment.”

MissyCooperismyShero · 08/06/2022 14:16

Well hardly any of the ladies with learning disabilities that I work with will know they have ovaries and loads of the men may well think they do have. Honestly not sure many my non medical 85 year old plus relatives and their cohort would have much idea either. But hey, better to not offend than to save a life it seems.

bellinisurge · 08/06/2022 14:21

Complaining about this exclusionary nonsense doesn't make me right-wing.
If we must, say "women and transmen". Don't waste my time with "non-binary". That's as meaningful as "Scorpios" and "Leeds United supporters".

lunar1 · 08/06/2022 14:34

Language matters. Not all parents educate their children at home, they don't talk about bodies, development, puberty, sex and sexuality etc. so for some children it falls to schools and the internet.

So what happens when children are being taught that around 50% of people will experience menstruation. There will be boys waiting for their periods to start, potentially ignoring serious illnesses if they actually bleed from their genital area!

How do they know who might have ovaries?

Not all schools will follow this mantra, but even if only a couple do we are seriously letting our country down. Children believe what they are taught, we owe it to them to be accurate.

Our biology is determined at conception and no matter how a person identifies, biology won't change. Science is not science if it has to take into account feelings.

abc5432 · 08/06/2022 15:32

Tagliatellme · 08/06/2022 14:15

Apologies if someone else has already posted this, but Sajid Javid has said:

“Well, look, I haven’t seen that particular report, but I have heard of instances like that and I don’t think it’s right.

“You won’t be surprised to know that, as the health secretary, I think that your sex matters, your biological sex is incredibly important to make sure you get the right treatment, the very best treatment.”

Well great that he is making the right noises but he is the Health Secretary, so he should make it his business to know about this erasure of appropriate female biological language and reverse/stop it.
Time for the Conservatives to begin the practical roll back of all this 'gender identity ideology' nonsense not just the right soundbites from a few.
To be fair the guidance for schools was revised several months ago but it seems schools are still doing the Stonewall thing.
Even Priti Patel has come out and said about the fudged crime statistics that 'these are not women's crimes' but it is still happening.
The most that can happen is that the UK Government gets it right at long last (e.g. Cass Review) and then we can hope the devolved administrations are forced/feel obliged to follow.

nepeta · 08/06/2022 16:50

Ceridwenn · 08/06/2022 13:06

The fact that male cancers still mention male tells us everything we need to know. Women are still thought of as second class citizens. It is eraser of women and our rights and it is insidious.

I've created a file on this difference overall from 2018, and the differences are vast, both in the media about health, on various feministy organisations and in at least some governments.

Ireland erased women from their cancer information pages, too, and it took a tremendous push to get that banned word back even once.

A recent article in the Vanity Fair about Roe v. Wade erases women but keeps men as biological categories in the same sentence!

A lot of people are extremely upset about this because, among other things, they think the government should not get to treat 50% of the population like second-class citizens, and that pregnant people should be allowed to decide what to do with their own bodies, just like men can decide to, say, have a vasectomy without a bunch of elected officials weighing in.

This must be an intentional difference. It may be driven by subconscious sexism, i.e., women are expected to step aside for others but men not so much or by sex differences (innate or acquired or a mix) in how 'inclusive' each sex is.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 08/06/2022 16:55

NecessaryScene · 08/06/2022 07:25

They're actually writing totally information-free text because of this:

"Anyone with ovaries can get ovarian cancer"
"Womb cancer is cancer that affects the womb."
"Cervical cancer is a cancer that’s found anywhere in the cervix."

They've actually forced themselves into circular definitions to avoid mentioning sex.

The sentences are placeholders for real information they feel they can't give, but they recognise they're supposed to have some sort of introduction, but it's impossible when you can't state the most fundamental thing.

I've been trying to work out how to express nmyself on this. Thanks. Those are the calm words I needed!

nepeta · 08/06/2022 16:55

Also, I read here that the NHS has explained the differences in how often women are erased vs. how seldom men are erased as just having to do with which pages have been reviewed more recently.

But this cannot be the whole explanation as yesterday the page on womb cancer had no mention of 'women' or 'female' while the page on prostate cancer had many mentions of 'men' and at least one mention of 'male.'

Yet the most recent review dates on the two differed by only three days. The pages on womb cancer were reviewed on October 21, 2021, the pages on prostate cancer on October 18, 2021.

So no, they were not planning to erase the male sex, too, though they probably are doing that right now because of the criticisms.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 08/06/2022 17:00

Theredjellybean · 08/06/2022 08:26

So what should the public health messages say if 48% don't know what a cervix is?
How would saying "women need cervical smears" change that fact over saying "anyone with a cervix"
If 48% of people don't know what a cervix is.. I can't see how using all or women makes a fig of difference

That's because this is your working lexicon. Words you use daily.

Think it through, Your job, in healthcare, is to provide clear communication and treatment to as many people as possible.

Transmen as a % of the UK population
Transmen without English as their first language as a % of the UK population

Women as a % of the UK population
Women without English as their first language as a % of the UK population

Why are you aiming yourself at the smallest, more niche cohort?

Why are you not advocating for that cohort to have cohort specific education, leaflets, etc?

Additional information is required for a specific cohort. Not the whitewashing and bastardising data for the majority.

5zeds · 08/06/2022 17:12

I’m pretty sure most of my female relatives over 60 haven’t got a clue what these words really mean. I found the revised version was a very different message. One said basically it’s an older woman’s problem and the other that this was the most common cancer for women (a fact I didn’t know despite decades of gynae/fertility/urinary treatment/surgeries).

WOMAN IS NOT A SHAMEFUL WORD.

PonyPatter44 · 08/06/2022 17:19

Women make an appearance on the page about Causes of Ovarian Cancer (page 3, if you like), but not the introductory overview page.

nepeta · 08/06/2022 17:21

5zeds · 08/06/2022 17:12

I’m pretty sure most of my female relatives over 60 haven’t got a clue what these words really mean. I found the revised version was a very different message. One said basically it’s an older woman’s problem and the other that this was the most common cancer for women (a fact I didn’t know despite decades of gynae/fertility/urinary treatment/surgeries).

WOMAN IS NOT A SHAMEFUL WORD.

A study done about five years ago showed that roughly 40% of British women had no idea what a cervix is.

When the American Cancer Society came out with new recommendations about cervical cancer screening and only stated that they applied to all individuals with a cervix (women was not mentioned at all), this caused additional confusion as there is also the cervical spine (neck) which all humans (so also men) have and so on.

None of this information is intended to be clearer overall; the changes are made because of the new inclusiveness which is about an extremely tiny population percentage, and people in it surely know which biological sex they are.

If they do not, then their medical advisers have committed malpractice to allow them to believe that their entire body sex is now different.

But this is also about avoiding mentioning anything that might bring on gender dysphoria, even if doing that causes far greater harm in the rest of the target population. The same thing as we see in all issues when it comes to women: Our needs are not prioritised.

5zeds · 08/06/2022 17:30

Surely it would be quite easy to set up a questionnaire to see what the impact is? Do they not have to check the what they publish is understandable by everyone?

SolasAnla · 08/06/2022 18:35

Theredjellybean · 08/06/2022 07:27

I'm not sure I can get so worked up about this.
The wording is true... Anyone with overaries can get ovarian cancer.
There can be no doubt or misunderstanding .
They could have put "any biologically female person with ovaries"
But they couldn't have put "any woman" as some women have had theirs removed for other medical reasons.
Though they are yet to update advice regarding medical conditions affecting biological males.. So advice on prostate cancer.. Is it going to say "anyone with a prostate"
Wasn't there a thread recently about this and someone had a response from NHS saying they were changing all advice but it was a big piece of work...lots of comments about how the "female" advice was being done first.

Why do you think the tax funds should pay for sub-par work?

The pages are marketing in the form of a public service announcement.

They are saying that political ideology has been placed above striving for excellence.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/06/2022 07:19

twitter.com/anna_firth/status/1534571426849619969?s=21&t=axn4zhGiAuWiiiPysSAjXw

Great question from Anna Firth MP and great no nonsense response from Sajid Javid. Now please put your money where your mouth is Sajid. Actions rather than words.

Queenoftheashes · 09/06/2022 08:16

Doesnt a certain TW claim to have a cervix? This is where it gets you. I fed back to nhs on the ovarian cancer site asking how I was to know whether I had ovaries.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 09/06/2022 08:19

Queenoftheashes · 09/06/2022 08:16

Doesnt a certain TW claim to have a cervix? This is where it gets you. I fed back to nhs on the ovarian cancer site asking how I was to know whether I had ovaries.

Yes. To this day I don't know if IW was indulging in bravura or displaying a profound misunderstanding of whatever had been explained by the surgeon and other HCPs. (So much for informed consent.)

Beowulfa · 09/06/2022 08:27

Javid's response made page 2 of The Metro this morning. The paper chose not to point out that the word "men" still exists on NHS cancer info sites.

OakTreex · 09/06/2022 14:17

My mother died of ovarian cancer at 62. She was misdiagnosed multiple times. "Oh, it's IBS, stop making such a fuss." "You have diverticulitis." The doctors eventually apologised, but only once she was dead.

By the time they bothered to even offer her a scan she was in kidney failure.

She went private in the end. The MRI showed she was essentially riddled with tumours. She died a painful and miserable death when my first child had just been born.

OC is horrifically poorly diagnosed.

Remember BEAT:

Bloating - excessive or unusual new bloating
Eating - not able to eat as much, feeling full, appetite changes
Abdominal pain
Toileting - issues with bowel movements, diarrhoea, constipation etc

INSIST on scans.

As to the NHS making information about such a poorly diagnosed disease, the symptoms of which are so interchangeable with other conditions it's often missed and it's too late, even more difficult - I despair.

turbonerd · 09/06/2022 14:56

When I lived in the UK I did not know I had ovaries until, well, embarrassingly until my last kid was born (nr 3!) and they wanted to suture (?) my ovaries to sterilise me.
they explained what it was and why.

prior to that I did not need to know the Word ovaries. It rarely cropped up in my everyday encounters.
I studied some physiology, but only muscles and bones in movement.
so I did not think about my ovaries (though I knew what they are called in my native language where the names for bodyparts both external and internal are less latin-y than in English).

turbonerd · 09/06/2022 14:58

💐💐 to oaktreex

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 09/06/2022 15:05

When I lived in the UK I did not know I had ovaries until, well, embarrassingly until my last kid was born (nr 3!) and they wanted to suture (?) my ovaries to sterilise me.
they explained what it was and why.

You know what? I sometimes wonder if the emphasis on brief screenings for depression, smoking, blood pressure etc. during a routine appointment would occasionally be time better spent checking that somebody has talk through of some basics. For example, as the general introduction to the first HPV swab/screening etc and as part of maternity care.