Helen Joyce/Helen Staniland "Trans Elimination" video

[momentsinthewind]

I've just seen a video on YouTube with HJ and HS and HJ is saying that we need to return to a sane world and everyone who has transitioned is damaged and will need special accommodation (detransition treatment?) in the future.

I'm GC and have many concerns about safe spaces and sport etc, but this just seems to be going too far.

I found it quite upsetting if I'm honest.

For years feminists have been saying "my body, my choice" - why are trans people suddenly exempt from the right to make decisions about their body?

In relation to reproductive rights, not harming their healthy bodies!

Affirmation surgery is more akin to fitting an anorexic with a gastric band or amputating the healthy limb of a person with body integrity identity disorder.

Yes, she cares very much about telling people about what to do with their bodies. What a busy body.

@Hearach15 "For years feminists have been saying "my body, my choice" - why are trans people suddenly exempt from the right to make decisions about their body?"

As an adult, you are free to do with your body what you wish.

What you are not free to do, though, is demand that everyone else in society submit to your demand to be perceived and treated as a male who claims he is not a man and is therefore a woman or a female who claims she is not a woman and is therefore a man.

This is disruptive of everyone else's need to live their lives in peace and in freedom.

People alter their healthy bodies all the time with plastic surgery. Mad that you believe you have a right to tell someone what's best for them just because they are trans.

Would suggest you seriously engage with what trans people are feel and say before you claim to know what is best for them.

This is clearly not what Joyce believes. She wants to stop people transitioning because then they become "a huge problem to a sane world". Awful, authoritarian stuff.

Cosmetic surgery is one thing, but it isn't paid for by the NHS and it doesn't generally give rise to the kind of horrific complications that "bottom surgery" frequently does. Some people are left permanently disabled by it.

It's not unreasonable to point out that people who choose to do these things to their bodies frequently have lifelong medical complications as a result, and they're not the ones footing the bill.

Adults should have the right to alter their own bodies.

they should not have any state support (unless it’s medical af course, but we’re assured that being trans isn’t an illness), and it should be a criminal offence to encourage children to do this.

… and of course they shouldn’t expect anyone else to take them seriously or believe them when they claim they are now the opposite sex.

@Hearach15

What are you, a little owen jones cover band? We've already been there, done that and got the fucking tshirts this week. You are a day late and a dollar short with this tedious faux outrage.

@Hearach15 "This is clearly not what Joyce believes. She wants to stop people transitioning because then they become "a huge problem to a sane world"."

I think you misunderstand Ms Joyce. Nothing can be done about adults who have already altered their bodies. What we have to do here is make accommodation that obviates the impact on the rest of us where our sexed bodies matter to us.

Beyond that, when it comes to minors, we should do all we can to take care of these youngsters and avoid social, pharmaceutical and eventual surgical alterations to their bodies. Something like 80%+ of such children experience relief from their gender distress when puberty completes its process and will most likely live their adult lives as gay men and lesbian women.

Similarly, young adults need our care and exploratory and constructive therapeutic care to support them in their full understanding of what the outcomes and impacts of their decisions are likely to be for their lives and the lives of others.

Luckily, this article Helen has released is free and available for all to read. Even those late comers so keen on creating deja vu on this thread without progressing it at all can read it.

It goes so way to see what she means in her use of blunt language.

www.thehelenjoyce.com/joyce-activated-issue-8/

Language that extremist activists have twisted, and edited, and twisted some more.

Perhaps there's a class assignment about progressing through the several stages of Harry Frankfurt's On Bullshit.

www2.csudh.edu/ccauthen/576f12/frankfurt__harry_-_on_bullshit.pdf

People alter their healthy bodies all the time with plastic surgery.

Adults, not children as young as 4. Yes, some parents & "clinicians" (I use the term lightly) put children on a set of medical transing processes as young as 4.

It's a scandal.

Thanks, Helle! She links to an excellent article in that blog piece: "Making Light of Detransition - by Dave Hewitt" voidifremoved.substack.com/p/making-light-of-detransition?s=r

People alter their healthy bodies all the time with plastic surgery.

There's some evidence that even relatively low-risk cosmetic procedures which don't end up causing infertility, incontinence and a lifetime of hospital appointments aren't good for mental health.

digest.bps.org.uk/2012/02/15/mental-health-problems-worsen-after-cosmetic-surgery/

Indeed, it seems to suggest that people with psychological problems are more likely to end up having cosmetic surgery.

Alison, you're the one swearing on this thread. I do not understand why my mainstream opinions so enrage you. They are quite commonly held.

The majority of trans people who chose surgery report that it does wonders for their mental health.

Where did I hear that? Harvard University:

"Gender-affirming surgeries are associated with numerous positive health benefits, including lower rates of psychological distress and suicidal ideation, as well as lower rates of smoking, according to new research led by Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health."

www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/

No I understand Joyce better than you do. She doesn't even want adults to transition and believes that all who do are a "huge problem to a sane world."

I humbly suggest you watch the video.

Good for those parents. If my child was trans I would do the same because I would want them to happy. 🤗

@Hearach15 "No I understand Joyce better than you do. She doesn't even want adults to transition and believes that all who do are a "huge problem to a sane world."
I humbly suggest you watch the video."

I have watched the video; I watched it as it was streamed live.

I suspect you have not even read her book "Trans - when ideology meets reality".

I suspect that you have no "understanding" of Ms Joyce in any way at all.

Classic case here of being so 'open-minded' your brain has fallen out. What an idiotic and reprehensible statement. No child is going to be happy in the long term once they grasp what's been done to their health, their life expectancy, their fertility, their ability to have a normal sex life and their prospects for dating and finding a partner if that's what they want.

Me too! If they could avoid infertility, anorgasmia, osteoporosis, unnecessary surgeries etc. that would be a bonus, too...!

no arguing with stupid.

That only works as a comparison if you think trans people can and should be "cured", that they're just suffering from an illness. 

@GoodJanetBadJanet I thought trans people were all at risk of depression and even suicide. That sounds like a mental health condition if gender dysphoria is that crippling. Is it or isn't it? We're told that using the wrong pronouns and not affirming is denying life saving treatment yet you say it's not an illness?

You say that, but I know a number of trans people who became a lot happier after they transitioned.