So disgusted tonight

[Mollyollydolly]

Owen Jones and Pink News tweeted about the two Helens, Joyce and Staniland and their YouTube chat .. Jones taking what they said completely out of context it's resulted in some of the most vile abuse aimed at Helen Joyce in particular on twitter tonight. So many death threats.

I wish there was something we could do, it's so utterly vile, it's time they were held to account for their lies. It's really upsetting.

Owen Jones isn't fit to lace Helen's shoes, I cant believe The Guardian still employ him. I've seen threats to murder, throw napalm in their faces from Joss Prior and many many more. It's disgusting and all down to Owen.

How can this stand up to any level of journalistic ethics or integrity.

It's time we did something, some kind of collective action.

So saying that men are more violent than women is like racism?
now the agenda becomes very clear, eh

My belief in sex stereotypes? Oh you mean data and facts? Aye. Right you are.

It's utterly bobbins, isn't it?

Who is winding whose bobbin?

‘It actually is. That's precisely how stereotyping works. That's precisely what racists say about skin colors.’

No. ‘Men are violent’ would be a generalisation that implied stereotyped thinking. ‘You’re a man so you’re violent’ would be to apply a stereotype. ‘Men commit more violence than women’ is a verified fact that requires no prejudice and no level of assumption to recognise as accurate. It’s just the truth.

You said it's "not stereotyping".

I've simply pointed out that it is.

And that you're wrong to consider anger to somehow be a specifically "male" emotion.

I mean, if they want me to get out my facts on the latest stats from the prison service regarding 60% of males that identify as trans being in prison for sex related crimes, whereas that sits at 18% for males that don't identify as males being in prison for sex related crimes which puts men that identify as trans as over 3 times as dangerous [for sex related crimes] than men that don't identify as trans then that's fine.

To be honest, I lost track part way through.

Wonderful, new TRA slogan, anyone, 'Statistics are stereotyping'?

And that you're wrong to consider anger to somehow be a specifically "male" emotion

Well, no. That isn't true. That's a translation, a twist, an obfuscation.

@ShinyRainbow "And that you're wrong to consider anger to somehow be a specifically "male" emotion."

I think the point is that anger expressed as aggression or violence is very much a male response, given the extent of male aggression and violence there is in this world.

In fact, Shiny, you must expand on how we must combat this horrible stereotyping, would marching on ONS do it?

ShinyRainbow could you please explain what you mean by 'forcing the role of man' on people who want to reject it. And why rejecting that role means they must really be women.

Transwomen are not women. No less or more important than any other human on the planet, but they are not women.

Okay.

There's a lot of "statements of fact" that primarily serve to perpetuate bigotry, but this isn't even about that.

What @AlisonDonut said about "male rage" basically amounted to, "you're angry because you're male, and failing at femininity because of your male rage".

Which is, in fact, stereotyping bullshit.

‘What @AlisonDonut said about "male rage" basically amounted to, "you're angry because you're male, and failing at femininity because of your male rage".’

Potentially. However, given how pronounced the difference is in recorded violence between men and women, I don’t think it’s an unreasonable viewpoint that extreme rage is a predominantly male characteristic. That statement of fact isn’t bigotry at all. I like men a lot.

And I'd like to suggest few other stereotypes we must combat:

Approximately half of UK population have below-average IQ.

Children from disadvantaged backgrounds have worse predicted life outcomes.

Go on Shiny, any other suggestions?

good job I never said that then, eh.
you, on the other hand, compared saying men commit more violence to racism. So you’ve made it clear what you’re about.

"you're angry because you're male, and failing at femininity because of your male rage".

When males get angry when we say that 'performing your version of femininity doesn't make you a woman', that just proves why we don't want men in female spaces.

I don't even know what femininity even is? Wearing frilly dresses and painting nails pink? What is that all about?

And of course nobody ‘fails at femininity’ because they are male. Femininity can be shrugged on and shrugged off. It’s constructed. Sex isn’t.

Anyway I have a feminine piece of TURF to femininely dig out and sunflowers and verbascums to plant with my femininely dirty hands and my orange ladylike trowel and my girlie green watering can.

<twirls>

Is that how we are supposed to do it?

@AlisonDonut
You're "refuting" a strawman you've imagined in your own head.

And let's not pretend any of this is about "spaces", when it's pretty clear you're also intent on policing identities and taking away the ability to transition.

Don't know tabby, I feel extreme rage on the regular basis, as do most women I should imagine. It's just that we don't lash out with physical violence as often, or are capable of inflicting comparable damage when we do.

Sorry, to be clearer (because always best to be clear) the external insignia of femininity can be shrugged on and shrugged off. I don’t think we fully understand how psychology interacts with external structures like gender, so to what extent a person born and socialised as a male will ever think/react situationally ‘like a woman’ (like a person with more typical female socialisation might) is contestable.

‘Don't know tabby, I feel extreme rage on the regular basis, as do most women I should imagine. It's just that we don't lash out with physical violence as often, or are capable of inflicting comparable damage when we do.’

I can’t speak to what someone feels when they commit extreme violence because I’ve never felt that compulsion. I’ve obviously been angry.

It might be wise if you avoid telling women what they are "really" saying according to your interpretation.

[Misogyny Rule No 9]

What women are, in fact, saying to such men "No!". We do not want any men of any description in any of our female single sex spaces or services. We do not consent to this.

If such men don't want to be in men's spaces or services the solution is to create third and distinctly separate mixed sex spaces for all those who deny their natural sex.