So disgusted tonight

[Mollyollydolly]

Owen Jones and Pink News tweeted about the two Helens, Joyce and Staniland and their YouTube chat .. Jones taking what they said completely out of context it's resulted in some of the most vile abuse aimed at Helen Joyce in particular on twitter tonight. So many death threats.

I wish there was something we could do, it's so utterly vile, it's time they were held to account for their lies. It's really upsetting.

Owen Jones isn't fit to lace Helen's shoes, I cant believe The Guardian still employ him. I've seen threats to murder, throw napalm in their faces from Joss Prior and many many more. It's disgusting and all down to Owen.

How can this stand up to any level of journalistic ethics or integrity.

It's time we did something, some kind of collective action.

Why do you think disabled people are likely to be lifelong medical patients?
why is there so much unashamed ignorance about disability here?

@SamphirethePogoingStickerist
> Transwomen are men

No, they aren't. Stop forcing the role of "man" on them.

Why do we need to use the masculine labels and pronouns to refer to them, when they're clearly uncomfortable with those?

We don't. As every gender critical feminist will agree.

Biological status is not a role. It’s your head supplying the “role” bit.

My apologies. Lazy of me. Though it is amusing that you only object to the second half of that nomenclature.

Transwomen are male.

Or, transfemales are male.

But you can see how bloody ludicrous that gets!

Transwomen - a gendered term

Male - a sex based term

That is all well and good but, if the outcome of so-called "transitioning" impacts adversely on the lives of others, as it is now very clear that it does, we have to take steps to minimise or remove those adverse impacts.

Adverse impacts are happening in sports, schools, hospitals, prisons, everywhere. Those adverse impacts are, for the most part, happening to girls and women.

So, it is no surprise that it is women and girls who are saying "No, we do not accept any of this".

Perhaps you might want to pop over and tell them that the male rage they 'perform' when women don't want them in female spaces, is not helping them 'perform' the role of woman?

We see male rage all the time, it is quite obvious who is violent male once a woman says no. Dial that down a bit maybe?

@JellySaurus
> How about giving trans people the chance to better understand their bodies and their identities, the way they are shaped and influenced by society, and the options available to them?
> How about giving them the ability to express their identities in healthy bodies without being alienated from society?

A lot of euphemisms that effectively mean forcefully foisting the categories of "man" and "woman" on them regardless of their objections, and restricting them from changing their bodies in the ways they want.

Allowing people to explore their identities is what the "trans activists" do.

@TullyApplebottom Have not meant to offend, my disabled daughter is, and unfortunately will be, a lifelong medical patient, due to physical disability. I appreciate that some disabilities do not require medication, but all require special accommodations. Please don't assume ignorance, or lack of deepest compassion for those living with physical or mental health-related disabilities.

So what's your problem with trans women being true to themselves and living as women? Is that "pushing you out" somehow?

What is 'living as women'? Adopting feminine stereotypes? Fine, fill yer boots. That doesn't push me out and I will defend totally your right to do so. But if 'living as women' is expecting access to the women's sex-segregated services, that does push me out, and I will defend totally our right to keep males out of women's sex-segregated services.

‘A lot of euphemisms that effectively mean forcefully foisting the categories of "man" and "woman" on them regardless of their objections, and restricting them from changing their bodies in the ways they want.’

We all have categories foisted upon us. Short, tall, fat, thin, bald, hairy. These are realities, not roles we play.

The only reason you see frustration with your transphobic bigotry as "male rage" is because of your own belief in sex stereotypes.

Why, do you think women never get angry at those who persistently denigrate and disrespect them?

I apologise. The previous stupid remarks have sensitised me! I should not have been so hasty.

Allowing people to explore their identities is what the "trans activists" do.

With a non reversible trip to the pharmacopoeia of other conditions?

Hardly fucking ethical, as we are seeing with the Weberleys!

Euphemisms for what?

Except when you impose the masculine label of "man" and the masculine "he" pronoun on trans women.

‘The only reason you see frustration with your transphobic bigotry as "male rage" is because of your own belief in sex stereotypes.‘

It isn’t stereotyping to observe which of the two body types that exist commits the most violence.

Are you aware that people who have transitioned and go on to develop dementia, are horrified on a regular basis when they realise that their genitals have been mutilated due to being 'trans'. It does tend to suggest that it is not innate.

Some men think they are women, or say they do. Some women think they are men. We would like there to be fewer such people and for the mistakes they make about their own sex to be given less rather than more credence and respectability. Why?

My answer (there may be others ...) -- Because, as things have turned out, the mistakes these people and their supporters make about their sex have possible deleterious consequences for our children.

Tough on these mistaken people? Surely. But my children and grandchildren come first. Sorry and all but there it is.

[Oh, and just in case, let us lay to rest a particular canard ... No this is not at all relevantly similar to being gay. If you, a man, think you are attracted to men, you are so attracted - that is in the nature of 'attraction'. If you, a man, think you are a woman, you are mistaken. The cases are not assimilable. Owen Jones and fellow hard-of-thinking commentators, take note: LGB and T are not the same. ]

It actually is. That's precisely how stereotyping works. That's precisely what racists say about skin colors.

The only reason you see frustration with your transphobic bigotry as "male rage" is because of your own belief in sex stereotypes.

Yeah. That and statistics. Lived experience, although I assume that when this is female it is worth less than that of a transwoman?

Why, do you think women never get angry at those who persistently denigrate and disrespect them?

Again, those pesky statistics and lived experience.

It's almost as though being human gives you and I insight into humanity!

That's all fine. Such personal exploration should never impact adversely on others though, especially those who have no interest in such exploration as that in which they engage. Maybe such exploration should be done in the sphere of privacy rather than the public domain?

The notion that people should be granted any change they ask for to their body purely because they want it is both stupid and dangerous.
Drugs and surgery are not like ordering food off a menu.

Man and woman are defined by having male or female sex. Stop pushing your POMO 'it's all a social construct' bollocks. What is the name for adult humans born with cocks? Or do we not need that word anymore? Shall we just call the sex that commits 99% of sexual violence 'cockers', and that non-violent sex 'non-cockers'? Will that make 'cockers' less violent?

Except when you impose the masculine label of "man" and the masculine "he" pronoun on trans women.

Read on, I did you the courtesy of apologising and correcting myself, with an explanation!