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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

LGB Alliance monkeypox tweets deleted

427 replies

pezdis · 30/05/2022 21:44

The LGB Alliance tweets from yesterday about gay men and monkeypox have been deleted by twitter for either homophobia or misinformation.

LGB Alliance monkeypox tweets deleted
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8
Helleofabore · 01/06/2022 12:18

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the dynamics at play here.

And yet....here we are.

BettyFilous · 01/06/2022 12:20

This thread has been a textbook example of pigeon chess. You’re all way more patient with the pigeon than me. Kudos you lovely vipers.

MangyInseam · 01/06/2022 12:48

AlisonDonut · 01/06/2022 12:12

Not to be a cynic but if you move from LGB to LGBTQ+++ and the TQ+++ can mean anyone who says words then of course it will increase. Like all the heterosexual people in heterosexual relationships and marriages that call themselves 'queer', I mean of course numbers will go up.

There have always been all kinds of questions about how you decide who counts as homosexual. For example, in research it's important to have a logical and clear definition, and what you use can affect the outcome of your research.

If, say, you wanted to look at genetic or other physiological elements, or psychological charachteristics, whatever. Do you look at people who self-identify as gay or lesbian? Or people who have in fact had sexual relationships with people of the same sex? One encounter, 20 years ago? What if you are doing your research in a non-western country and the cultural context is different?

A lot of people today might say, obviously it's about self-identification, but that might give you a different set of people, and different results, than another measure, and it tends to favour a western model of sexuality which isn't ubiquitous by any stretch.

At the moment there is a real sense among young people that boring old hetersexuality is inherently discriminatory, so it's not that weird that stats around self-identification would be high.

Lovelyricepudding · 01/06/2022 13:07

BettyFilous · 01/06/2022 12:20

This thread has been a textbook example of pigeon chess. You’re all way more patient with the pigeon than me. Kudos you lovely vipers.

Indeed but useful for lurkers to see the ageism, sexism, homophobia of the pigeons and their inability to present reasonable arguments.

Helleofabore · 01/06/2022 13:27

Lovelyricepudding · 01/06/2022 13:07

Indeed but useful for lurkers to see the ageism, sexism, homophobia of the pigeons and their inability to present reasonable arguments.

Indeed. From posters who think that bisexual people should never be excluded from lesbian and gay spaces when they have an opposite partner, to posters who simply cannot understand how legislation works or how those who are lesbian and gay could ever hold another view point specific to the word 'marriage', to posters who cannot see their own ageism and sexism but assures everyone here that they are on the wrong side of history... because... PR optics, to those posting stats that are forever incomparable as the ultimate 'gotcha'.... it is really all there on this thread.

A thread to discuss the merits of one organisations suggestion regarding monkey pox.

Yet, all the above has been posted as ad hominem attacks on that organisation and those posters too have also seemed keen to spread misinformation about what was actually posted too...

And they continue to feel righteous and on the 'right side of history' but have the arguments that simply fall at the first hurdle.

MagnoliaTaint · 01/06/2022 14:20

I love pigeons. Very sweet birds.

Hearach15 · 01/06/2022 14:37

MaudeYoung · 31/05/2022 22:41

I am offering you the facts of the response given by Kate Barker.

What you offer is pure speculation: that those who did not reply are likely to be "straight". On what factual evidence do you base this speculation?

I gave you the factual evidence that they gave under oath that only 7% are lesbians. You've yet to produce evidence that would suggest anything to the contrary other than "maybe lesbians don't reply emails".

Hearach15 · 01/06/2022 14:41

Lovelyricepudding · 31/05/2022 23:35

I also note Hearache keeps referring to the LGB community. What ha's T got to do with LGB? Why should they be included in groups representing LGB?

The T and LGB go together because throughout history the same people have persecuted us and we have fought side by side with each other for our rights.

See: equalityarchive.com/history/transgender-women-of-color-at-stonewall/

It's a bit like NATO, an attack on one is considered an attack on us all. And that is why most LGBT people find the 'LGB Alliance' so ridiculous because they seek to split us up.

There is strength and pride in our rainbow tribe!

Helleofabore · 01/06/2022 14:43

I gave you the factual evidence that they gave under oath that only 7% are lesbians. You've yet to produce evidence that would suggest anything to the contrary other than "maybe lesbians don't reply emails".

You also said this:

Most like they are overwhelmingly straight like those who did reply.

Which you have absolutely NO evidence for yet you continue to push. This is an assumption that you have made.

You claims are entirely unconvincing yet you seem to double down on them.

MagnoliaTaint · 01/06/2022 14:43

I'm not in your 'rainbow tribe', thanks.

MagnoliaTaint · 01/06/2022 14:43

talk about forced teaming.

No, thank you.

Helleofabore · 01/06/2022 14:44

It's a bit like NATO, an attack on one is considered an attack on us all. And that is why most LGBT people find the 'LGB Alliance' so ridiculous because they seek to split us up.

There is strength and pride in our rainbow tribe!

At last. You are actually quite right here. You are very 'tribal' hearache. It is very easy to discern from your posts.

Hearach15 · 01/06/2022 14:48

MagnoliaTaint · 01/06/2022 14:43

I'm not in your 'rainbow tribe', thanks.

That's a shame. One day there might be a cure for heterosexuality but we're not there yet.

Hearach15 · 01/06/2022 14:49

Helleofabore · 01/06/2022 14:44

It's a bit like NATO, an attack on one is considered an attack on us all. And that is why most LGBT people find the 'LGB Alliance' so ridiculous because they seek to split us up.

There is strength and pride in our rainbow tribe!

At last. You are actually quite right here. You are very 'tribal' hearache. It is very easy to discern from your posts.

Quite so. It's a great tribe to be a part of. I am very lucky :)

Helleofabore · 01/06/2022 14:49

It's a bit like NATO, an attack on one is considered an attack on us all. And that is why most LGBT people find the 'LGB Alliance' so ridiculous because they seek to split us up.

No. LGB Alliance has been formed to give people a choice of representation. All LGB people always had a choice of representation, it is now that some LGB people do not agree in the prioritisation of gender over sex, the forced change in definition of the very well established and historic words they used to describe themselves, the change of focus that brings different groups with protected characteristics into conflict over rights that those LGB people choose to be supported by a different group to the one YOU have chosen.

That you cannot accept that shows just how 'tribal' and 'totalitarian' you actually are.

Ridiculous is the paltry evidence that you have produced to support your assertions.

Hearach15 · 01/06/2022 14:50

Helleofabore · 01/06/2022 14:43

I gave you the factual evidence that they gave under oath that only 7% are lesbians. You've yet to produce evidence that would suggest anything to the contrary other than "maybe lesbians don't reply emails".

You also said this:

Most like they are overwhelmingly straight like those who did reply.

Which you have absolutely NO evidence for yet you continue to push. This is an assumption that you have made.

You claims are entirely unconvincing yet you seem to double down on them.

Why not email them and ask them for the stats? Based on their own evidence under oath they won't be able to disprove anything I've said.

Hearach15 · 01/06/2022 14:52

Helleofabore · 01/06/2022 14:49

It's a bit like NATO, an attack on one is considered an attack on us all. And that is why most LGBT people find the 'LGB Alliance' so ridiculous because they seek to split us up.

No. LGB Alliance has been formed to give people a choice of representation. All LGB people always had a choice of representation, it is now that some LGB people do not agree in the prioritisation of gender over sex, the forced change in definition of the very well established and historic words they used to describe themselves, the change of focus that brings different groups with protected characteristics into conflict over rights that those LGB people choose to be supported by a different group to the one YOU have chosen.

That you cannot accept that shows just how 'tribal' and 'totalitarian' you actually are.

Ridiculous is the paltry evidence that you have produced to support your assertions.

"LGB Alliance has been formed to give people a choice of representation". Agreed!

Now what evidence do you have that the LGB Alliance represent more than a few oddballs in the community?

Helleofabore · 01/06/2022 14:53

Hearach15 · 01/06/2022 14:50

Why not email them and ask them for the stats? Based on their own evidence under oath they won't be able to disprove anything I've said.

I am not the one claiming to know the 93% of the respondents to their questionnaire.

You are.

You are the one making many unsupported claims here on this thread in an attempt to malign an organisation that you clearly despise.

I don't need to go and ask them. Any person reading can see how poorly you have evidenced your claims. I am happy to leave it as it is.

Helleofabore · 01/06/2022 15:00

Now what evidence do you have that the LGB Alliance represent more than a few oddballs in the community?

You really don't get it do you?

If it was 'just a few oddballs in the community', why have you expended so much effort to discredit them?

What are you scared of?

And why does it matter how many or how few people support them? And what about the international groups that are part of the umbrella? Still confident it is a 'few oddballs in the community'?

Do you seriously not understand that you have done all this because an alternative political lobby group and support group is simply by giving people a choice and you have felt so threatened by it? By alternative thoughts?

Do you seriously not understand that you actually seem to have absolutely fuck all in the way of evidence to support you own incredibly prejudiced thinking?

Helleofabore · 01/06/2022 15:02

And you are here feeling proud of being 'tribal' in the way you approach things. ie. That you are proud of supporting polarised opinion and people who only can think in an 'us and them' capacity.

nightwakingmoon · 01/06/2022 15:12

Hearach15 · 01/06/2022 14:48

That's a shame. One day there might be a cure for heterosexuality but we're not there yet.

@Hearach15 well I’m not heterosexual and I don’t identify as part of the “rainbow tribe”, thanks. Years ago my (female) partner and I were enthusiastic about Pride, rainbow flag etc. Now I’ve given away any rainbow items as I feel so alienated from what it’s all become - kink, men dressed up as caricatures pretending to be something they’re not, lesbians being gaslit and bullied into gender ideology, the death of serious feminism. It’s a men’s sexual rights and kink movement railroading over women and girls - plus it’s reactionary, capitalist, pro-cosmetic surgery, neo-colonialist, pro-establishment, authoritarian, individualistic, selfish and innately right wing. It masquerades as progressive whilst really being anything but.

Not my “tribe”, thanks. Tribalism is reactionary and politically atavistic.

dunBel · 01/06/2022 15:36

Going back to Malcolm's comments at the Scottish Parliament yesterday, he was talking about "when gay rights were introduced". Was he talking about the decriminalisation of homosexuality, the equalisation of the age of consent, Equality Act protections or what? Because using statistics about the change in the proportions of society who are gay and lesbian over the last 5 years doesn't refute his point about the effect of legal changes more than 40 or 20 years ago, if those are the ones he was talking about.

AlisonDonut · 01/06/2022 16:09

dunBel · 01/06/2022 15:36

Going back to Malcolm's comments at the Scottish Parliament yesterday, he was talking about "when gay rights were introduced". Was he talking about the decriminalisation of homosexuality, the equalisation of the age of consent, Equality Act protections or what? Because using statistics about the change in the proportions of society who are gay and lesbian over the last 5 years doesn't refute his point about the effect of legal changes more than 40 or 20 years ago, if those are the ones he was talking about.

Have you thought about going on to twitter and asking him?

Helleofabore · 01/06/2022 16:24

One day there might be a cure for heterosexuality but we're not there yet.

And hearache thinks is this funny. I think I can say with complete confidence that no regular poster on FWR would post such a thing, joking or otherwise about any sexual orientation.

But apparently according to wait4me and other posters, it is mumsnet that is the problem.....

AlisonDonut · 01/06/2022 16:30

Helleofabore · 01/06/2022 16:24

One day there might be a cure for heterosexuality but we're not there yet.

And hearache thinks is this funny. I think I can say with complete confidence that no regular poster on FWR would post such a thing, joking or otherwise about any sexual orientation.

But apparently according to wait4me and other posters, it is mumsnet that is the problem.....

Particularly when those types of people are literally campaigning for Trans rights, which when applied to kids results in a cure for both homosexuality and sterilises them at the same time.

I honestly have no words for these people.