Stella Creasy says women can have penises

[WhereAreWeNow]

Stella Creasy has doubled down on her TWAW position in today's Telegraph www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/stella-creasy-jk-rowling-wrong-woman-can-have-penis/

So surprised to see so much transphobic hate on Mumsnet. Do you not have better things to do with your time?

What do you think @HackneyMum1 ? Do women have penises?

Don’t worry if you’re too busy to answer, I’m sure you have far better things to do with your time.

@HackneyMum1 depends what you see as transphobic doesn’t it? If you think everything is transphobic then, to you, it will be transphobic. To the rest of us here it’s called being pro women’s rights. Anyway. If you do see actual transphobia please do report it.

Abitofalark

SC was arguing (as she has been all day) that transwomen are both women and adult human females. Professor on Twitter (defending Jon Pike) pointed out that one alternative approach (not one I support) is for transwomen to be encompassed by the word “woman” but not by the word “female”. SC said that was one possible path but the reason it won’t work is that gender critical people won’t regard transwomen either as women or as female. So it’s all our fault, because males who identify as women must be ‘recognised’ as what they claim to be, and we won’t do it.

‘Do you not have better things to do with your time?’

I certainly have things I’d rather be doing. But at the moment I’m having to make arguments to prevent my little girls being brought up in a world where adults in positions of authority lie to them, and where their reasonable self-expression is curtailed to protect the feelings of a small minority of aggressive activists.

Feel free to report things in line with the rules, Hackney

Oh noes here is today's teller-off tag team member.

Hello there, how YOU doing?

yy amazing how incendiary a no thank you can be.

But it’s not even the real reason. People tried that. They tried (very hard) to say ‘A transwomen may or may not be a woman but that is not the same thing as being female, and single sex spaces are for females.’

That was rebuffed with biology denialism and legalistic sophistry.

Jane Clare Jones is totally going off on one - quite rightfully - at Creasy's disingenuousness. (Thread here)

Creasy: Perfectly possible to record both sex and gender statistics. Have repeatedly said sex is real, and used to oppress. So is gender. Accurate statistics are something Trans people represent 0.07% of UK population - some proportion important!

JCJ: Are you going to deal with the fact that this is not what is happening. What is happening is that sex data is being overwritten by gender identity, at the behest of trans rights lobby groups, and when we try to intervene to stop that happening, as in census, we get monstered.

The entire point of our census campaign was to make sure ONS separated sex from gender identity data.

We had to raise money and go to the high court to try to make sure that is what happened.

Because ONS is captured by trans ideology and was in close consultation with Stonewall

People like Alice Sullivan tried for months to get meetings with ONS and to get our concerns about the conflation of sex/gender identity seriously. And this has to be done right at the last minute, as women had not even been consulted during most of the design process.

It is all very well for you to sit there are go 'oh, it's possible to separate these things.'

Yes, it possible, and its what we have repeatedly asked for. But you are being deliberately wilfully blind about the objectives and methods of the trans rights movement.

And you are abjectly failing to make sure that what you rightly say is possible is actually happening.

And you are leaving the business of trying to make sure its being done correctly to ordinary women, and our own money.

SERIOUSLY. DO YOUR JOB WOMAN.

---

I am fucking enraged by Creasy.

Talk a load of incoherent bollocks about not being a sex denialist while claiming male people are female.

Then claim it is possible to separate sex from gender identity, while wilfully refusing to understand that that is not what's happening.

And to understand that it is by design, not by accident.

Because the objectives of the trans rights movement, which have been allowed - by people of the intellectual rigour and moral decency of Creasy- to run roughshod over civil society, is to replace sex with gender identity.

That the people who have done the work of trying to resist this erasure of sex by gender identity, which Creasy seems to support, has fallen to women.

Who have had to work their arses off, take considerable personal risks, and raise a ton of money, to ensure that sex is not completely politically erased.

And then women like Creasy, who have sat there while we have been monstered and intimidated, can come along a go 'oh of course sex should be recorded separately from gender,' while still falling in line with the entire ideological structure which has been undermining that, and refusing to even remotely understand what has actually been happening, and that ordinary women are basically doing politicians jobs for them, because they are engaging in this kind of lazy deliberately ignorant bullshit for likes.

Thanks for linking to this twitter thread, I tried to link further upthread, but the link in my post is invisible on the app. (Bloody app)

Stella is still sticking firmly to her erroneous belief that the law says transwomen are female and dismissing anyone who points out she is misstating the law.

Someone on twitter has just called her 'stunningly thick' and it's hard to disagree.

I am beyond furious with Labour for this. The current government presents them with an open goal and Labour proceed to make themselves unelectable by peddling this utter nonsense.

Stella would do well to look
at the Glasgow where a councilor, one of the “be kind “ crew , lost her seat to a trans identifying man from the Greens! Oh the irony, & amusement, especially when she took to Twitter to complain 😂😂😂

Agreed - I'm beyond furious too. I like to have a CHOICE at a general election not feel that I have to vote Tory.

I mean just look at them! The Labour Party - ready to erase women if given even half a chance at power:

twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442783077978226688

Thanks for posting the text. Not all of us are on twitter.

Stella is still sticking firmly to her erroneous belief that the law says transwomen are female and dismissing anyone who points out she is misstating the law.

Is this because you can't "ally" yourself with Bad People? Anything Bad People say must be false, so you have to disagree with them.

(And if you ever find yourself accidentally agreeing with them, it's by mistake, because you've not been listening, and didn't know it was Bad Person rhetoric).

Stella Creasey may feel that her manipulation of language has been very clever today, but it means that, when Starmer next issues a statement in support of single sex exemptions (as I imagine he will) it will now be that bit harder to persuade me to believe a word of it.

Corroding trust is not clever, especially when you are trying to position yourself as the party of integrity.

Agree. You just know that half of them will try and gaslight everyone into thinking that they were just thinking about the rights of women and girls

As he did with Grace Lavery and Helen Joyce, Andrew Doyle has offered to host a discussion for Stella Creasy and Jon Pike.

I would be happy to host a discussion between [Stella Creasy] and [run think write] on my show.

I would remain impartial and ensure that each side of the debate is given a fair hearing.

Always best to discuss contentious issues in person!

twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/status/1530497214803591168

Jon Pike happy to do it. Stella might be busy that day?

Thanks, tabby. I'm not on twitter so when I saw a reference to Pike yesterday, I thought of Dad's Army...and gave up trying to make sense of it.
So this suggestion that trans can mean woman but not female I don't think is any improvement or any more acceptable in terms of reality or the meaning and use of language than the familiar bald mantra. As to Stella Creasy's answer, I still have no idea what she meant.

Nope. Happy to spend much of my time refuting that women have penises. The remainder of my time I spend educating people that the earth isn't flat.

I consider it a public service.

HTH

Corroding trust is not clever, especially when you are trying to position yourself as the party of integrity.

Yes, Floisme, exactly.

So this suggestion that trans can mean woman but not female I don't think is any improvement or any more acceptable in terms of reality or the meaning and use of language than the familiar bald mantra.

Yes, it's a logical dead end. If you have a word for "women who don't have a problem thinking of themselves as women and men who want to think of themselves as women" - what do you use it for? It's a useless word, just like a word for "fish and biscuits".

Why are you grouping those groups together, and why are you separating them from other people?

There are coherent reasons for separating sexes in general society and law.

There are no coherent reasons for separating genders in society and law, any more than star signs.

The only reason the grouping does anything is that you're using the false grouping to hijack existing groups and laws - those created for "women" with the original definition. Similar to the "gay->LGB->LGBT->LGBTQ" hijacking, but even more blatant.

‘It's a useless word, just like a word for "fish and biscuits".’

This.