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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How language has changed in 6 years

137 replies

Plasmodesmata · 22/05/2022 08:04

Compare and contrast these two news reports, one from today, and the other from 2016.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61477168

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37606726

OP posts:
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 23/05/2022 00:26

SpindleInTheWind · 22/05/2022 15:41

This is patriarchy at its most blatant as it is male people demanding this , so that they can call themselves women

It's patriarchy all right.

But I think it's more that men want to stop women being able to call ourselves women; so that we are just 'things' or 'entities'. 'Those who birth'; 'those who menstruate'; etc.

Men don't really want to call themselves women. They just want to stop women doing it. For us to be de-contextualised and formless, like blood in a blood bank.

Yup

How language has changed in 6 years
TheBiologyStupid · 23/05/2022 00:31

MagnoliaTaint · 22/05/2022 23:19

Well.

It's been updated. The first archived version from this morning shows that there were no instances of 'women' or 'woman' used at all.

web.archive.org/web/20220522013719/www.bbc.com/news/health-61477168

Don't the BBC usually add a note if they update an article?

Nope, sadly they don't. They often change an article's headline throughout the day, but keep the same url and don't acknowledge that either.

Clymene · 23/05/2022 05:55

So the complaints have achieved something. Good!

That said, it shows the absurdity of the quotes from the charities up even more. How can a charity purport to support women and be focused on women's issues when it won't mention us by name?

Beefcurtains79 · 23/05/2022 07:23

SeldomHere · 22/05/2022 14:39

Frankly, why should we care?

It's not as though you care about the offense you cause to trans people with any of your terminology, so why should we give a damn if our terminology offends you?

If you don’t care about what language we use, why are you even here?

SeldomHere · 23/05/2022 07:26

SpindleInTheWind · 22/05/2022 15:41

This is patriarchy at its most blatant as it is male people demanding this , so that they can call themselves women

It's patriarchy all right.

But I think it's more that men want to stop women being able to call ourselves women; so that we are just 'things' or 'entities'. 'Those who birth'; 'those who menstruate'; etc.

Men don't really want to call themselves women. They just want to stop women doing it. For us to be de-contextualised and formless, like blood in a blood bank.

This is conspiratorial nonsense. Trans women want nothing less than to simply be free to live as women.

MagnoliaTaint · 23/05/2022 08:45

Then they can away and leave women (and women's spaces, and women's rights) alone, can't they?

334bu · 23/05/2022 08:54

No conspiratorial nonsense and as a wise woman on Twitter said.

Removing women's ability to describe themselves as a group is the ultimate act of male oppression.

**

Beefcurtains79 · 23/05/2022 08:58

Beefcurtains79 · 23/05/2022 07:23

If you don’t care about what language we use, why are you even here?

Can you answer my question about why you are here if you don’t even care what language we use? Was it just to monitor and hector women on a Sunday morning for fun then?

Mandodari · 23/05/2022 08:59

Guardian at it again. Bithrights report title
MBRRACE-UK (Mothers and Babies: Reducing Risk through Audits and Confidential Enquiries across the country) sh

Guardian comment

"Systemic racism within UK maternity care is risking the safety of people from Black, Asian and mixed ethnicity backgrounds, often with devastating consequences, according to a report by the childbirth charity Birthrights"

But no, there's no proof that the word woman is being eliminated from public discourse.

Clymene · 23/05/2022 09:13

I started another thread about that report @Mandodari and linked to a bbc article which only talks about women, not people.

Inquiry finds widespread racism in maternity care www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/4554849-inquiry-finds-widespread-racism-in-maternity-care

I realised reading the article again how much easier it is to read. I don't have to constantly figure out who they are talking about. It just really obscures the actual point of the article.

MagnoliaTaint · 23/05/2022 09:53

SeldomHere · 22/05/2022 22:35

Funny that you mention it.

Do you think gravity needs social and legal enforcement?

You seem to be suggesting we introduce social and legal enforcement against gravity. To claim that if someone is distressed by the effects of gravity, they can apply for an exemption so that the laws of physics do not apply.

This is a good illustration, actually, of the problem with the GRA. The idea that one can 'change sex' is a legal fiction. It's not reflective of reality, which is why we are all in this ridiculous situation.

Helleofabore · 23/05/2022 10:07

You expect trans people to accept an inferior status to yourself.

I did not read on this thread a rationale about how being known as a trans woman would be an 'inferior' status?

I have seen a person though who seems to wish to have the majority of people redefined for their personal needs. I have also seen this " Transwomen want nothing less than to simply be free to live as women. "

But they are not women except in their own redefined language, forced through in some dictionaries. Dictionaries can be changed back with enough political pressure. However, material reality will persist.

Therefore, no transitioned male can simply be free to live as a woman in all aspects of life. There will be times when sex matters. It must be infuriating that women, those pesky adult human females, won't give ground on issues where sex matters. You can continue to try to deny it all over the threads you are on, but it simply doesn't change. Just like that material reality I mentioned.

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