All Trans Shortlists?

[pop91]

Hi,
Trans person here.
I've posted here before with a not so great interaction hoping this one won't be so toxic😅

Question relating to All Women shortlists for example in politics and the inclusion of transwomen:

Firstly, I actually agree that trans-women shouldn't be on the normal all-women shortlist in almost the same way I don't think someone who's only got one BAME grandparent should be on an all BAME shortlist.

For me, it doesn't provide the best position to have people not fully understanding of the issues to be at the forefront of tackling them with all the knowledge present. So, for example, Lisa Nandy technically has mixed heritage but experiences life largely as a white person so can't for example tackle colourism as well as someone more visibly BAME. Likewise, a trans woman can't tackle period poverty as effectively!

But I understand that's not the same as the GC position of the trans woman not being a real woman so effectively to be considered automatically ineligible for GCs.

However, on the flip side, I don't believe non-trans people can tackle the issues for trans people as effectively as a trans person could! which is why I believe there should be at least some All-trans shortlists, especially in areas with higher percentages of trans people, like London for example.

Currently, there is only one trans person in parliament and he has only just come out and soon plans to leave politics, likely leaving parliament with zero trans people after the next general election. Effectively leaving trans people with zero national political representation again - obviously from my standpoint that is distressing!

Withstanding the GC argument that Trans people aren't real or that it's all gender ideology and that therefore there is no need for a Trans MP - I understand that is the opinion many here hold however as you will know most Trans people believe their identity to be real and not an ideology, myself included and therefore ask for different answers. TLDR: I know you believe Trans is all ideology but we don't and saying so won't change my mind or further this discussion🙂

So my questions:

1. Would GC's then protest All-Trans shortlists if trans women were specifically not included on the All-women shortlists?
2. Would GC's still protest if it was made clear that All-Trans shortlists would only be used in seats held by male MP's and not already using an All-Women shortlist?

A question that's not strictly relevant but I've asked other trans people and you might find interesting:

1. Should there then be separate All-Trans shortlists for trans men, trans women and non-binary people?

I am wearing trousers and a bloke's jumper. Does this mean I am a crossdresser?

Well, the other hand, there's all of the SNP (bar one); the Green MP; the Labour Party (bar a handful); Plaid; Crispin Blunt (Con), Penny Mordaunt (Con), Maria Miller (Con), Caroline Nokes (Con) and others who are happily wedded to Stonewall's thinking.

Yep, lack of representation regarding trans and trans issues my arse. Apart from the above Stonewall lobby only for trans these days and up until recently were well and truly embedded in the corridors of Parliament.

A UK therapist said this?

On a slightly different note, I relistened to Gold against the Soul last week. Cracking.

I was a trans kid!!!
That's how I know trans kids are a thing!

I never 'settled' into my sex and neither did any of the other trans kid's I knew.

I was refused any medical pathway except maybe you would consider conversion therapy medicine And now I have a body that's far far too female bc of the forced puberty I had to go through - It almost killed me and to this day I'm thankful for that first hormone shot - it saved my life!

It happened in the UK yes!

Thing is Pop, I also struggled with my sex as a child and I grew out of it. That T shot for me would've ruined my life. How could we differentiate between you and me as children? At the moment, I don't think we can.

Are demons in the BACP guidelines? I wouldn't be altogether surprised, tbh. What kind of therapist was this, OP?

So a UK therapist, recognised by one of the reputable industry organisations? Or a religious organisation offering religious "counselling"?

yes, it was religious!

the regular conversion therapy focused on my sexual habits where a therapist tried to convince me I was a lesbian while I had a boyfriend at the time.

That was traumatic too albeit less so.

You really should look up Lupron and the effects it had on the female children who were prescribed it OP. The health issues they now have as adults. Lupron is used as a puberty blocker.

It is a lie that they are ‘reversible’ and that they are ‘just as pause’. There is a group of women building a class action in the US for its use. Particularly those now adult female children.

So it was some sort of religious thing?

Did you have any actual therapy that might have helped you accept your female body?

IDK maybe you didn't pack socks into your underwear to look like a bulge or bind your boobs away.

Did you actually have dysphoria or were you just tired of the gendered stereotypes?

So you had religious "counselling" and you also saw a registered therapist who tried to convince you that your sexuality was different as well as your gender identity? Or was it all the same person who was "counselling" you?

yes, as mentioned in another comment.

My 'female body' was what caused me distress asking me to accept it made me want to die.

Xpost.

So you were failed by your therapist, feel like hormone treatments saved your life, but you also admit that you feel afraid to go out in case someone says something on purpose that triggers your dysphoria?

none of these therapists are registered!
that's the damn point!

a regular therapist might work through depression and/or SA and help someone independently realise they aren't actually transgender with no agenda to de-trans someone.

Conversion Therapy pre-supposes the outcome of someone no longer being trans.

I'm not going to discuss this anymore because it's not relevant to your post and clearly it upsets you. I will say that the 'treatment' doesn't seem to have resolved anything for you if the threat of someone potentially referring to you as female when out and about has you scared to go out.

Good luck with your trans representation in parliament. I hope it's a trans man, else you've not changed anything really.

I don't really understand the point of the op raising questions about short lists on this board now... as of March this year, the Labour Party has effectively dropped them - rightly imo, on legal advice that it would be illegal to continue now they've achieved their legitimate goal of 51% women. I don't know if the libdems are still planning on using them, they probably shouldn't...

So, the OPs agreement that trans people shouldn't be on "the normal all-women shortlist" is now rather redundant.

If the op thinks trans people should have short lists then by all means they should campaign for them and decide for themselves whether they wanted different categories. Perhaps the libdems might bite. I wouldn't protest.... I'm inclined to think it would be a massive own goal.

Of course therapists can be registered, with BACP for example as previously mentioned. The issue is that therapist or counsellor isn't a protected job title so anyone can call themselves a counsellor or therapist and have absolutely no training, accreditation or registration.

The therapist failed me by trying to make me not-trans!

Hormone therapy aligns my body with my mind but it can't undo my going through the wrong puberty.

My gender euphoria is limited by feelings of dysphoria caused in large part by the current media climate!

I'll hopefully be getting masculinisation and bottom surgery soon though and feel euphoric just thinking about them.

I'm not suggesting 100 trans MPs but ZERO isn't representation either!

Er, there is a trans MP, it was all in the papers recently? He's a Tory called Jamie Wallace.

Conversion Therapy pre-supposes the outcome of someone no longer being trans

Sorry, so genuinely, being a medical guinea pig for the rest of your life is the preferred outcome rather than coming to terms with your body?

This thread has morphed somewhat. Assuming you're not trolling OP, are you okay to carry on? We're not here just for your amusement but vice versa.

But I think generally we would look for already out and proud and high-profile trans people.

Then no. The trans proportion of society is more than adequately represented by that trans MP, his background is not something you can pick and choose.