Stonewall leader wants dog and mum to sit next to him in court

[SirSamVimesCityWatch]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ac2b7ca0-d14b-11ec-9d8b-0826aa666f4f?shareToken=6cd74df5c3fb3a78e78a8281986c6794

And a support worker as well. Utterly ridiculous. Apparently a last minute request as well.

I know this is likely to be covered in the ongoing threads following Allison Bailey's courtcase, but this seemed sufficiently bonkers to warrant its own thread!!

I was utterly astounded an MNer on FWR could be unaware of support dogs, and then I realised it was you
What even is that supposed to mean?
Where do you even begin with that.
All posters on FWR automatically know what a support dog is?!
Er, OK.
Realised it was me? Not sure what you're insinuating there. An occasional dissenting voice, do you mean?! Oh noes 😲🙄
Such a level of ignorance of disability accommodations is totally typical of people arguing the trans activist line on mumsnet
Because they're the only people who won't always know?
I mean, what?
If you've never had the need for them in RL, never known anyone else to, not come across the term - why would you automatically know support dogs are a thing (for want of a better expression?!)
I have honestly only just heard of them and think they sound a great idea and that people could benefit from them.

That's a really good and interesting article from Simon Fanshawe.

I fear that KM is selected to be the person Stonewall will throw to the wolves to save the rest of them if Allison wins. But he/they obviously have a warped view of justice, what violence is, and whether other people than transgender ones have any rights or human value.

I wonder if the solicitor in the room with KM was KM's own solicitor, or a Stonewall supplied one representing SW's best interests rather than KM's?

I want one of these... Emotional support honeybadger

(I think Allison has one built in - kudos!)

Oh dear goodjanet , you really are behind aren’t you?

People we’re taking their support Miniature ponies, goats and turkeys on airplanes in the US at one stage! It was a topic on MN because I remember learning about it here.

And the turkeys were suspicious because it was thanksgiving! (as in people were suspicious that they were ‘support animals’ and not just dinner at the other end).

In fact I think I remember reading this link on a MN thread.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42880690.amp

and this one

eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/roadwarriorvoices/2016/01/12/passenger-takes-turkey-on-delta-flight-as-emotional-support-animal-and-now-were-so-confused/83290688/

just Google support animals on planes to see what people have as their emotional support animals.

I think the circus around KM really distracted from what he actually said, bodies are not male or female. That is the headline news from his cross examination.

Surely if this person was competent to do their job they would understand that there is a difference between men and women?

Surely if this person is capable of doing their job they would understand that in order to have three support oxygen breathers with them in a court appearance they would need to clear this first?

Ffs.

It feels as though some very immature people were let loose in a sweetshop at SW. Hope some grownups come along soon and get the keys back.

Really the legal team should have cleared it with the court. They’ve had plenty of time to prepare their witnesses and sort all this stuff. It was a deliberate choice to not do so. I wonder why?

I think KM chose to pick on Allison, so needs to be accountable for his actions, which were supported by SW, but Sw will now blame this person for all the mis information they have been giving out. Re autism, there was the case of the police person apparently misgendered by someone with autism, and prosecuted. So sympathy for this does not go both ways. Also it has been shown that girls who may be autistic, seem to be very much at risk and are in more danger of having damaging hormones and mutilating surgery inflicted a
upon them.

I just suddenly had an image of Lord of the Flies

Don't know how old you are @NotAGirl but I was diagnosed with autism at 40.

Good question. I'm not convinced Stonewall are coming across as a particularly caring employer to KM here. They have a duty of care.

KM was talking about the Stonewall approved policy. Whilst KM is accountable as an adult professional, who acted in the way KM did toward Allison, I think Stonewall may have encouraged the emotional support fiasco to try and get everything focused more on an individual. Really we want to focus on the fact that everything KM said is approved Stonewall policy and is totally free of any logic, decency or sense. Stonewall are encouraging a climate of denunciation where random women (who believe in things as uncontentious as biological fact) can be pushed out of their jobs for 'wrong think' and labelled 'bigots' with no evidence whatsoever. It's not just about KM (though KM is a definite product of the system and seems to have swallowed the ideology in it's entirety).

And the turkeys were suspicious because it was thanksgiving! (as in people were suspicious that they were ‘support animals’ and not just dinner at the other end).

I never heard that one!

I also wonder who the support worker was who didn't want to be seen on camera. Might have entirely innocent reasons for wanting to protect their privacy of course. But it leaves the suspicion that they may have been someone who viewers would have recognised and whose presence would have been questioned.

I also have the view that many other people appearing in court, on the witness stand or as someone being prosecuted, would appreciate a little support. Unless there is evidence that KM routinely has, and always has, had a support person present throughout their lives, when competing at crufts, when studying for their degree which I think I saw they got a First for, throughout their subsequent working life, then I wonder why they suddenly should be entitled to so much support on this one particular somewhat stressful situation.

Is there any such evidence available?

I also wonder who the support worker was who didn't want to be seen on camera. Might have entirely innocent reasons for wanting to protect their privacy of course. But it leaves the suspicion that they may have been someone who viewers would have recognised and whose presence would have been questioned

I've been thinking about this too, @FannyCann

It could suggest 'recognisable face' / 'future witness who shouldn't really be there', which in turn could suggest a face from SW.

And the more I think about it, the more I think that the solicitor who KM was left in the room with was likely engaged by SW for SW, not by KM for KM.

Does KM think SW is going to look after him? Is it fuck.

My son was mugged, aged 12. He was called to give evidence in the magistrates' court against one mugger. Naturally I went with him but I wasn't allowed to go into the court with him. A very nice woman from Victim Support was allowed in, fortunately, as the defence barrister gave him a hard time, apparently.

Also what @ickky said.

I think the circus around KM really distracted from what he actually said, bodies are not male or female. That is the headline news from his cross examination.

And perhaps that was the intention all along.

Zip , zero, nada, nowt ,

Sex changes across the human lifetime, makes me think of the ancient maiden, mother, hag/crone thing. But noticeably all females. I think there's an equivalent for males, youth, father?, codger?.

That is appalling, Gasp0de.

When a twelve year old child is expected to deal with court process alone, and women who have been assaulted, and Allison who has been in hospital through illness during this court process and has not been given breaks or any additional support - when all these vulnerable people are expected to just get on with it and cope, you are forced to wonder why a person on a high salary, in a position of high responsibility who is doing their daily job, is regarded as so very exceptionally vulnerable that so many special arrangements must be made for them and expectations are so very much reduced.

I take the view that the additional support is all part of Stonewall's tactics, not dissimilar to certain tennis pro's who make tactical use of well timed loo breaks/medical time out.
Pre-court they did everything in the book to delay and obstruct and attempt to price Allison out of continuing the proceedings, hence why she had to raise such an enormous sum to support her. In court they have distracted from what KM had to say by causing the focus to be either on sympathy for KM's problems or just the discussion we are having here rather than the content of KM's replies.
Then they got away with the "here we go" comment. Allison said she wanted to know who said it but the judge, presumably not wanting more delays, let it pass.

Always been fascinated by the ancient maiden/mother/crone mythology, although I think it's tied into the specific three phases of reproductive changes in a female: pre pregnancy, motherhood, menopausal, with specific aspects of myth, social change and insight/connection to the natural world at each stage rather than just being an age thing, and 'power' being seen as held differently with different roles in ceremonies and rites. Male biology doesn't have those huge phases or cycles in that way, which is why I suspect suggesting that there's anything special or biologically important to femalehood would probably be cause for a quick call to report the Druids to PC Gul immediately.

The bloke trinity is definitely just aping the female one. It is fascinating but I thing our ancestors probably had too much time on their hands once the day to day survival stuff was taken care of. Now, what does that recall?