Stonewall leader wants dog and mum to sit next to him in court

[SirSamVimesCityWatch]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ac2b7ca0-d14b-11ec-9d8b-0826aa666f4f?shareToken=6cd74df5c3fb3a78e78a8281986c6794

And a support worker as well. Utterly ridiculous. Apparently a last minute request as well.

I know this is likely to be covered in the ongoing threads following Allison Bailey's courtcase, but this seemed sufficiently bonkers to warrant its own thread!!

Capacity is a thing. And many, many people behave professionally and competently with mental health disabilities and struggles.

If you have mental disabilities and struggles that's fine, but you should then put your request for multiple support beings to the court ahead of time, as you're supposed to, not just spring it on the claimant's team unannounced. That's just rude.

I also think it's pretty unfair to all the millions of people with mental health struggles (and possibly disablist) to imply that being a bully (KM's email) and rude is because of mental health struggles. Plenty of people with anxiety, depression and autism manage to be courteous to others and act professionally.

If you read the letter he/they wrote to Garden Court CHambers, published by Ms Bailey in her evidence bundle, you'll see the way he/they copes in the real world.

And his/their grammar & expression - Terrible! lots of "yourselves" when "you" should have sufficed. Bullying hectoring in a passive-aggressive way. Really interfering, and telling the GCC how they should treat Ms Bailey. It's awful, and also really badly written (which kind of symbolises the awfulness of the thinking).

How do these people get such well paying jobs ? That's a salary not to be sniffed at !

Wholesale unquestioning swallowing, believing, adherence and regurgitation of The Creed.

Make your own conclusions as to what that is reminiscent of.

I'm just thinking again about Allison's statement and all that she's been through: the poverty, her parents splitting up, the sexual abuse, the difficulties of growing up black and lesbian in a hostile society. And the absolute resilience and determination she showed, going to university to do a sociology degree, then taking multiple low-paid jobs to put herself through the law conversion group. Just incredible. And then finally landing her dream job as a barrister in a progressive chambers, only to be shat on from a great height by someone who needs his mum and assistance dog to give testimony over a Zoom call. I can't even begin to tell you how angry it makes me.

👏 royal she's an absolute hero 💚🤍💜

Just catching back up with this.

I still think it's ridiculous to say that you require that level of support to appear on zoom in a courtcase.

How much support do rape victims get, as they are cross examined about the details of their rape? How much support do women in family court get, as they sit across the room from their abusive ex husband as he lies and lies and tries to take their children?

This is a person who, as a well paid professional, has been required to appear at a court case to explain their professional actions. I'm not saying it'll be pleasant, I imagine it'll be pretty fucking stressful, but it's hardly on par with a rape victim testifying in court is it?

This is where pandering to people's every whim gets you. People can't do their jobs, but no-one pulls them up on it because they'd go to pieces and either go off sick for 9 months because any criticism, any input at all that runs counter to their own version of reality gives them panic attacks, or they'd accuse you of something-phobia and have you driven out of your own job.

Support worker AND mum AND dog? Ffs. Get a bloody grip.

(And no whinging about me not being understanding of people with MH problems. I've been there done it bought the fucking t-shirt.)

I'm just thinking again about Allison's statement and all that she's been through: the poverty, her parents splitting up, the sexual abuse, the difficulties of growing up black and lesbian in a hostile society.

Yes, that struck me too. And then this little twonk decides she is guilty of wrongthink and tries to get her sacked. When Ms Bailey's activism has actually been part of the movement which made such a twonk's life thinkable & livable.

This is where pandering to people's every whim gets you. People can't do their jobs, but no-one pulls them up on it because they'd go to pieces and either go off sick for 9 months because any criticism, any input at all that runs counter to their own version of reality gives them panic attacks, or they'd accuse you of something-phobia and have you driven out of your own job.

Yep. Someone on the other thread said that starting reception as a 4 year old is pretty stressful, but most of them manage it without 3 support beings. Imagine if we gave in to this, if every 4 year old insisted on bringing their Mum and their pet, it would fast become impossible to run the class. Someone having 3 support beings isn't without consequences for others and the consequence for the trial was disruption and distraction from the points at hand.

KM didn't seem to need any support when they were denouncing Allison and trying to cause her harm (unless the dog wrote the email?). Professionals should be accountable for their actions.

I have plenty of support for people with MH struggles, but people also need to be able to cope with their work with some level of professionalism.

100% this.
Allison you're bloody amazing. How dare this little shit try and bully women.

‘Set him/them off on enforcing the dogma’

…maybe that’s why the dog and the ma were needed?

😁

😂😂😂😂😂

I’ve got immense sympathy for people suffering from mental health problems but I cant help thinking stonewall and this particular stonewall leader have brought this situation upon themselves. If KM couldn’t cope with this case stonewall should have put forward someone else to give evidence defending the letter as presumably KM was just implementing stonewall policy.

And if stonewall’s defence is going to be to set KM up to fail and claim they went rogue, stonewall has had a long time to say ‘oops rogue employee, that letter shouldn’t have been sent’ settle with Allison and do a public apology before the case came to court.

I also missed where KM expressed concern for Allison’s mental health as they were trying to hound Allison out of her chambers.

Indeed! And the need for the whole entourage should have been expressed clearly in advance. BC was "blindsided" by their sudden and unexpected appearance, and IO appeared to be sneaking them in under the radar until a fresh camera angle was requested and hiding them from sight became impossible. Disgraceful.

I am not at all sticking up for Stonewall or KM but autism is a disability and not all ND children actually can cope with nursery after 3 hours!

I read the thread, didn't see the Zoom proceedings. Apparently, in the room with KM were mum, support worker who didn't want to appear on screen so left the room, dog, whose presence surely didn't really need to be mentioned, and lawyer. As no advance notice had been given that all of these people were needed and they had to be visible, valuable tribunal time was lost sorting it all out. Unprofessional.

Yes it is pretty infuriating. Particularly because Allison wouldn't dream of being disrespectful to Kirrin in any lifetime because of the struggles she herself has been through. Shame Kirrin has not shown an iota of respect in return.

JulesRimetStillGleaming
autism is a disability

Absolutely it is and the fault here is Stonewall, if a disability means you cannot cope with the consequences of your actions you should be supported and supervised in your role* and the supervisor should be on the stand defending the actions. It should not be used by KM and/or Stonewall to blindside Allison’s barrister and the required arrangements should have been requested in advance. That was a circus that will cause problems for KM in the future.

*And I say this as someone strongly suspected of having autism but females with autism especially of my age are rarely diagnosed.

This is eye-opening as to the whole Stonewall organisation. Just how they managed to wield so much power is extraordinary when you discover people like KM in such a senior role.

I hope this is start of the end of Stonewall in it's current state.

The press really should start looking at the individuals responsible for all this at stonewall. Im still waiting for a story on the influence of Aimee Chanellor

I was utterly astounded an MNer on FWR could be unaware of support dogs, and then I realised it was you.

Such a level of ignorance of disability accommodations is totally typical of people arguing the trans activist line on mumsnet. In fact, it's a foundational point of the position, really. If trans activists had been interested in and knowledgeable about accessibility and fostering true diversity, they would spot the clashes of protected characteristics. They would certainly object to seeing the Equality Act 2010 recast as a hierarchy where gender reassignment trumps everything else.

At this point, I am reminded of another regular FWR poster who inclines to the trans activist view, who said that a young autistic gay man shouldn't be allowed out in public because he had an argument with a male transitioner he saw using the women's toilets.

A very good article in the Mail (yet again) by one of the founders of Stonewall - Simon Fanshawe - horrified at what the case is revealing about Stonewall.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10811203/Trans-activists-wrecked-good-work-Stonewall.html

So this might be controversial, and I really don't mean it to be. But lately I have seen a few instances of people being hired into roles on the basis of diversity, where it did honestly affect their ability to function in that role. The attitude seems to be, we should change to accommodate that person, and that is sometimes possible, but not always. Someone who is heading up a major charity needs to be able to understand people, complex thought processes, understand appropriate behaviour, and work under significant stress with a high degree of accountability.