Trans girl in Heartstopper

[HelenaRavenclaw]

Loving Heartstopper on Netflix, but the only thing that bothers me, as a gender-critical woman (adult human female), is the fact that the trans girl (male) Elle was allowed to switch from an all-boys school to an all-girls school. If I were a parent at an all-girls school, I would not be happy with this! Are most "girls" schools in these days really mixed sex? I remember hearing something about GDST having some common sense, but I don't know about others.

The person who plays the role of Elle is also a (male) trans girl herself called Yasmin Finney. A look through her social media reveals loads of photos of her in a bra (with a very masculine body structure) and other revealing clothing, or bare chested with the nipples covered by hair, as though they are showing off her "femininity". Instinctively, these photos made me uncomfortable. Not sure if a female actress would pose in such ways on a regular basis. Can't put my finger on it, but these photos make me think of the sexualisation of women's (female) bodies even more and it just doesn't sit right.

The series is lovely and very well acted.

In the graphic novels, Nick's mum is a single parent. His dad lives abroad and is often charming but unreliable.

Charlie's parents are quite interesting. His dad is the more laid-back and emotionally open parent.His mum is loving, but quite strict and uncomfortable with emotional stuff. Both Charlie and Tori have a lot in common with their mother, but that isn't always a particularly good thing for their relationship with her.

Yep. I watched this with my 13 y/o dd and had to sit on my hands at the casual interpretation of this part of the storyline. It's insidious and concerning that they're presenting such a huge change in a young person's life as easy as changing your clothes. Properly stonewalled.

Changing your underpants is what I meant to say!

Elle's transition wasn't part of the story though. I don't think it depicted transition as easy, it just didn't depict it at all.

Nothing in a film/tv series is there without a reason - every aspect of a production is deliberated before making it onto the screen. To me, the presentation of a biologically male trans character placed in a girl's school is there to normalise the presence of males in female spaces and to skirt over how difficult it really is to transition. I view it as subliminal messaging to teens that this is a straightforward process and that girls should be accepting of male presence in a space chosen specifically because it is female only.

It's based on a book @ImAvingOops
The character was trans in the book. Netflix didn't plant her there indoctrinate children.

Yes, great series but that aspect really pissed me off. Move over men and make room for your feminine brothers.

I know she's in the book. But when a book is adapted for tv, there are decisions made about how best to do that.

Are you advocating that trans characters in books should be left out of their TV adaptations? The fact that she went from the boys school to the girls school was quite integral to the plot as that's how the friendship group came together.

I don't think it would be so simple to change schools like that in real life but most TV shows aren't realistic.

I think I would have changed the school setting, even if that meant altering the plot slightly

I agree with @SarahAndQuack and @KylieKoKo

It's a lovely young adult romance which focuses on Nick and Charlie's relationship, with their friends as part of the story, but not the main focus.

Elle's character is refreshing because it doesn't focus on her transition. It shows her getting on with life and having all the same issues as other people her age. The adaptation is very faithful to the graphic novels.

Much of this thread is a bit like someone complaining that there's a depiction of a disabled person as a secondary character on TV and they don't have a storyline that focuses on the difficulty of getting wheelchair ramps installed or applying for PIP, when the main storyline is a murder mystery. Or that Tara Jones in Heartstopper didn't have a storyline focused around being black. Or perhaps complaining that there are too many black people and not enough racism in Bridgerton.

I'm so happy that teens now are getting to see a positive depiction of LGBT people their own age which is relatable and isn't chock full of angst and trauma. There was almost nothing on TV when I was that age until some lesbians in one of the later series of Skins - I was in my late teens by that point, and the characters were living rather unrelatable lives (Skins was what you wished sixth form was like, the Inbetweeners was reality...).

Yasmin Finney did a cracking job, and I really hope it returns for a second series, full of the same representation as the first, where people are not just reduced to one dimensional characters who only exist in relation to being "black", "gay", "trans" or "bi" but as fully rounded people.

Not sure that's a valid comparison because the whole trans issue is very loaded in terms of both effects on the individual child and on the rights of other groups on society. So what we convey to children about this, via dramas aimed at them is important.
That said, I do take your point that it's good for trans kids to see themselves represented because it must be hard for them.

I feel like, don't identify into womanhood if you're going to perpetuate our oppression.

This is precisely my point. The show conveys the wrong impression that it is acceptable and normal for a male student who identifies as a woman to move to a female-specific space. Sure, the focus of the show is not on the trans girl, but because the kids in the audience only see the "smooth" side of her transition to a girls' school, they can get the false impression that this was acceptable for all parties. They don't see dissenting students and parents writing concerned letters to the headmistress, etc. and thus they may not realise that it is okay to not be okay about this. By presenting such a one-sided view, the show contributes to indoctrinating children with gender ideology and the notion that gender takes precedence over sex.

Exactly @HelenaRavenclaw

its not even discussed it’s just taken as read that of course the girls are all kiiiiind & totes happy with a boy in their school just because they present as a stereotypical female

the messaging is clear - boys in girls spaces is fine and not something that even needs discussion

and that can get to fuck

@HelenaRavenclaw If you watched the show a little more carefully you'd see there are various references to things not always being smooth.

For instance, the teacher who refused to call her Elle, the fact she became friends with Charlie while they were both hiding from homophobic and transphobic bullies in the art classroom the previous year, and Harry is specifically named as a transphobic bully. She also struggles to make friends in the new girls school before Tara and Darcy befriend her.

But again - this show isn't about her transition, which happens before this series starts. The series doesn't exist to depict all the hard bits about transition. It definitely doesn't exist so that people can bang a drum about trans people and single sex spaces. It's first and foremost a love story about two entirely different characters who happen to be friends with Elle. Elle is a character who happens to be trans, not a character who exists because she is trans (why do some people think that any depiction of someone who isn't white, straight, cis and able bodied must be a plot point?)

Though I imagine you'll implode when, as happens in later webcomics, Elle starts going out with Tao, who is straight.

@HelenaRavenclaw do you think the series would have been improved by a adding in letters from irate parents that didn't further the plot in any way? That doesn't sound like very entertaining TV to me?

Not at all. I think the show should not have shown a trans girl (male) moving to an all-girls (female) school because it is not a "smooth" issue, and if shown, both sides of the story should have shown, unlike what they did. On the other hand, a trans girl smoothly moving from a boys school to a co-ed school would have been perfect and not added any extra hassle, and I would have totally supported that!

I believe they have now been cast as the new companion in Doctor Who under Russell T Davies.

I watched this with my DD and we both enjoyed it. The story is really about Charlie and Nick. Elle is a good narrative device that brings together the boys and girls schools and the new friendship group that emerges. It doesn't really go into much of Elle's backstory or the likelihood in real life of a trans girl in an all girl's school.
Apparently the other books by Alice Oseman are a bit less sweet. But very popular with the teen demographic - I think she writes well for the YA market and shows a much more relatable depiction of teen life. First novel written and published when she was only 17..

Seems so - replacing a female lead with two males is “progress”.

The doctor and the companion have historically been a mixture of sexes, technically if anything the doctor is a typically male role!

It’s not confirmed she’s a new (or a solo) companion, it sounds there’s something else different to her story. She’s another “rose” apparently. Interested to see where the storyline goes.

There may be other female companions, wouldn’t be the first time the doctor has had more than 1, if Yasmin is even playing a companion for definite

Also the racial diversity certainly is progress!