I'm trans so I've never used the school toilets- BBC artical pro gender neutral toilets

[Xoxoxoxoxoxox]

This is about a trans child FtoM who has been offered the use of male, female or disabled toilets in their school but they are still unhappy as there is no gender neautral toilets.

The article is written as though the child is being discriminated against when the school have been very supportive!

I can understand why 'Felix' feels worried going into boys toilets but they have been offered alternatives.
The argument for not using the disabled toilets is that it would be 'taking it from people who need it' - but single sex spaces for girls are needed too, and these needs are completely disregarded (as usual).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-61167271

Give Felix an additional space.

Explain to Felix and the writer of the article that female children exist too, their needs are not Felix's, and that sadly they matter every bit as much as Felix does, and tolerance means everyone, not just the special people.

Female children are not props in Felix's life. I sometimes wonder do the idiots writing this stuff realise the depths and starkness of their misogyny.

What is telling is that this student has had facilities provided. And we've seen this over and over again.
Students are accommodated but they turn it down, demanding instead that only one type of facility is provided and all other students are forced to share with the opposite sex whether they like it or not.
This has happened in my child's secondary. The school changed all the toilets to unisex based only on what trans students said they wanted.
Now we have all sorts of problems with girls avoiding the toilets during the day and having problems with boys behaviour in the loos.
It's a strange sort of 'inclusivity' that excludes the majority of girls.

Felix is a biological female and I wouldn’t be happy with my GD teen daughter using the boys toilets at school for her safety so I think Artichoke you’ve maybe misread the article?

This child should use an accessible or lockable staff toilet. It’s not that hard to work out.

What does Felix want, a separate toilet for Felix and people like Felix or girls to be told your female only toilet is now unisex, too bad if you disagree?
Also why can't Felix use the boys toilets if Felix is trans- wouldn't Felix feel more comfortable around boys?

Felix is 13! I note that there's another child from the same school who identifies as gender fluid. They comment:
Demetri, who attends the same school as Felix, said: "The only reason I really know about a lot of this stuff is from social media - but in school I only really know about it because I go to LGBTQ+ club. And I think people who don't go to that won't know as much about it. schools has an LGBT club

Alexa - define social contagion for me. 🙄

Felix says: "I'm worried that if I go in the girls bathroom they will be like 'Oh, why is there a boy in the girls' bathroom?'.
"And if I go in the boys' bathroom they'll do the opposite thing and be like 'Oh, why is there a girl in the boys' bathroom?'

I lost my patience with this narcissism a long time ago.

Everyone knows your sex. Use facilities meant for your sex. No one cares otherwise.

Felix seems a common name among young trans people.

I very much doubt the girls would really care about Felix using their toilet, knowing that Felix is a biological female.

more generally, most secondary schools have 1000 or so pupils, it doesn't to me seem totally reasonable to expect them to have a single gender neutral toilet.

That's up to Felix. Toilets are provided. Use them or don't. I wouldn't be having any further discussions about it.

Felix is female, so can and should be told they can use the female toilets. Any non sex segregated toilets (eg the disabled one) should also be made available to any female who feels unsafe/unwelcome in a female toilet and any male who feels unsafe/unwelcome in the male toilets, as long as their using it is second priority after any disabled student who cannot access the other facilities.

Felix should be reminded of why we segregate certain spaces into sexes and compassionately supported to either use the female space as it matches their sex, or the disabled cubicle as it is non-sex segregated.

Also why can't Felix use the boys toilets if Felix is trans- wouldn't Felix feel more comfortable around boys?

Because this would be a massive safeguarding risk in itself for Felix. I really don’t want the idea pushed that male identifying female pupils should be using the boys’ toilets. These pupils might not realise the risks to themselves and adults shouldn’t be suggesting it.

Felix seems to be overly concerned about the signage on the toilets. This is really the kind of absurd obsession with an insignificant detail that contemporary identity politics encourages.

@rogdmum
If that is the case, the school needs to address the issue of male violence and put suitable safeguarding in place. If one child is in danger if suffering violence when going to the bathroom, the solution cannot be let's ensure that half the school population suffers the same threat. Felix has been offered three solutions but instead wants everything changed to suit Felix.

Journalists need to be much more responsible. Just like when Sky posted the clip of a certain YouTuber's talking about their trans-identified child, they must start to understand their responsibilities towards children. These articles identifying children who say they are trans, are potentially setting them up for future difficulties. The articles can never be erased from the net.

We know that most children eventually desist and are same-sex attracted, and we know that - at least right now - that doesn't suit certain narratives or the positions of certain groups. Would these kinds of articles make detransitioning harder, or take longer, or incur unwanted comment from those so invested? What effect is that likely to have? Would I or my organisation perhaps be colluding in that? Is there another way of doing this article where I don't identify this child? That's the kind of thing they should be asking themselves.

What these outlets are doing is not without effect. They should stop and think what they're doing and why they're doing it. And how identifying children will impact those children in years to come.

I think Felix is asking for a separate space, not for all toilets to be unisex and that makes sense to me.

However I do wonder how many children need the accessible toilet in a mainstream school and whether 'taking it from people who need it' is really an issue.

At our school, accessible toilets are also unisex for anyone, they're not exclusively for those with disabilities. Disabled toilets have always been unisex, no one ever seems to have had a problem with that?

Currently in schools F to M trans is a far bigger issue than M to F, BTW.

I think Felix is asking for a separate space, not for all toilets to be unisex and that makes sense to me.

However I do wonder how many children need the accessible toilet in a mainstream school and whether 'taking it from people who need it' is really an issue.

At our school, accessible toilets are also unisex for anyone, they're not exclusively for those with disabilities. Disabled toilets have always been unisex, no one ever seems to have had a problem with that?

Currently in schools F to M trans is a far bigger issue than M to F, BTW.

Felix wants unisex toilets because that's where Felix would "feel comfortable" (newsflash Felix, feeling uncomfortable in school toilets is not unique to trans people) - but plenty of other trans people esp transwomen don't want that. They want toilets of their trans-identified "gender" so they can go in them and feel validated.

It's not possible everywhere, but surely in a school the answer is a single, one-cubicle unisex toilet that is accessible for everyone (including disabled, as a trans disabled person might want to use it). Felix would then have a unisex toilet. It is beyond what Felix (or any trans person) can reasonably demand that everyone else must suffer unisex toilets - in many cases that would infringe on their rights, as well as their own comfort.

Shockingly, this means that Felix may have to compromise and learn that other people also have needs.

Maybe some of the trans supporting charities should raise money for an extra gender neutral toilet area in all places that they will be required, but leave all existing toilets as they are. Until they are built, they can provide a portaloo for those that feel unable to use the toilets everyone else use.

In the new school we've just opened, every toilet, staff, student and accessible is unisex. A lockable self contained cubicle with wash basin and sanitary bin. Is that OK?

This isn’t about this specific case. This is about the notion (raised by you) that a trans identified female pupil should use the boys’ toilets at school. That is an awful idea and safeguarding risk for any female pupil at any school.

Its roll out the fluffy kittens time.🐱

All the nice males in female spaces is not working anymore.😫

Oops! All the nice ladies pointed out the sex based discrimination involved in pushing females from their own services.

So how about the nice young girl female who is "afraid" to go into the female toilets because the [ insert words here ] girls would not know the difference between a female or a male. 👁👁

Can't use the female toilets, the male toilets or a disabled mixed sex unit, so the school will have to remove accommodation for the majority to provide for the ones who claim they are not their birth sex.

And we are all mean, like the mean parent, if we don't agree. Who would be cruel and agree to a special child needing missing school or class.

Or (shock, horror) we would be cruel to say if you use non-sex based pronouns just use the toilet for your birth sex.

Who can be mean to the fluffy kitten who just wants to pee in the corner not in its litterbox?🐱

Maybe we could all just have our own, named, personal toilet. Wait… no. That’s impractical and ridiculous.

The toilets are actually male - people who can use the urinals. And female - people who don’t use urinals. There are accessible toilets for people who need additional space or equipment too.

They’re not actually gendered.

I think.felix needs to be encouraged to stop being so.paranoid. they are female and should use the female toilets. No ones going to question why Felix is there.

Whoever interviewed Felix is basically indulging the paranoia and victim hood when female uses female space is a daily occurrence no one would think twice about.