I'm trans so I've never used the school toilets- BBC artical pro gender neutral toilets

[Xoxoxoxoxoxox]

This is about a trans child FtoM who has been offered the use of male, female or disabled toilets in their school but they are still unhappy as there is no gender neautral toilets.

The article is written as though the child is being discriminated against when the school have been very supportive!

I can understand why 'Felix' feels worried going into boys toilets but they have been offered alternatives.
The argument for not using the disabled toilets is that it would be 'taking it from people who need it' - but single sex spaces for girls are needed too, and these needs are completely disregarded (as usual).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-61167271

There are 3 F-M transpeople in my DSs year and none of them pass. It is sad but from what I have been told they are very isolated, none of the other children talk to them as they fear the repercussions of saying the wrong thing. To say that none of the children know and that this will continue is at best naive.

Surely these " experts" are invited in though.

Staff can't invite these people in when then simultaneously act like their hands are tied.

Don't invite them in for " training ". Not only can u implement the equality act and safe guarding as needed you can also save yourselves a few quid

And I should add that I in no way want my 6'4" DS playing any contact sports with these F-M transpeople. It isn't fair on either party.

Transgender Trend have an excellent article about the psychological damage happening to f teenagers trying to be perceived as one sex, whilst developing the body of another. I wish all those in the BBC using children like this to promote their preferred adult view of the world had an insight into the harm that's being done to them.

www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/

Invited by the school yes, not the staff. And then once the policies are written, staff are obliged to follow them.

Plus, so much of the training on this subject will have you believing that pretending they are the opposite sex is the right thing to do.

Has anyone cleared it with insurance?

Because i garuntee you that whoever was invited in to give this training had zero background in legal issues, safguarding, child development, etc and has a get out clause written in. Implement at own risk.

There will be no fall back to them when this child gets serious. So of insurance don't pay, and the trainers aren't liable then where does that leave you all?

Seriously hurt

I suspect your school is in breach of World Rugby Guidelines @WoodenClock

This guideline applies to all levels of the game and should be used in conjunction with the World Rugby Age Differential Guideline where appropriate.
Guideline
Best practise is for participation in mixed gender teams to be permitted only up until the end of the season (including the following off-season) in which the player turns 12 years of age.

In exceptional circumstances, a player over 12 years of age may play on a mixed gender team where no other option in continuing to play Rugby exists.
In order to ensure the suitability of players in such circumstances, the following criteria should be met:
1 Written agreement from the player’s parents or guardians to play, and acceptance of the associated risk with playing with people who may be stronger and more physically developed than them
2 Written confirmation from a medical practitioner with an understanding of the demands of Rugby to whom the player is known that the player is in a physical condition to play Rugby at the desired level and that this view is supported by a musculoskeletal evaluation and/or other appropriate assessments
3 Written agreement from a medical officer with an understanding of the demands of Rugby employed or retained by the player’s home union that the player is in a physical condition to play Rugby at the desired level and that this view is supported by musculoskeletal evaluation and/or other appropriate assessments
4 Written confirmation from a coach with an appropriate understanding of the physical attributes required and of the risks to players in Rugby and to whom the player is known that the player has the requisite skills and experience to play Rugby at the desired level.
5 Such other consents, agreements or confirmations (if any) as may be required by the player’s home Union or to comply with the local jurisdiction.
6 Because of the particular nature of the front row compared to other positions appropriate considerations must be given within the assessment protocols outlined above regarding whether or not the player should be permitted to play in the front row.

I doubt anyone in the school has asked the RFU for their opinion on mixed sex rugby. They have lots of policies to keep young people safe when playing rugby. They take it very seriously.

Contemporary debates about gender are not helpful. There are good reasons for having single sex activities and spaces. Learning how to tackle in rugby with 13 year old boys is not a safe thing for a female body.

Social Contagion.
Anorexia /bulimia swept like a tempest through a hostel full of teen girls years ago- Now being Gender fluid or the opposite gender is cool.

Often about attention seeking.
“ I’m special and different “
So there!

Because the girls in that story are alleged to be objecting to a "boy" in their toilets.

Therefore the girls are as resopnsible
○ for the student feeling excluded,
○ for the student to have no toilet provision in the school and
○ for the student missing school.

If the newspaper runs an article about how the student and all the girls would not be able to use the requested mixed toilets, as they actually become single sex male provision, the story fails as its proof positive mixed sex provision results in discrimination against girls (and the student).

It seems likely to me that the person most uncomfortable with Felix’ reality of being female sex, boy presenting gender, is Felix.

I imagine (hope) Felix’ co students accept them for who they actually are as described above.

In that case it is surely not healthy or helpful to pretend to Felix that Felix is ‘other’. Better surely to encourage them use their energy to accept and be comfortable with themselves in their reality.

However, the bullying of vulnerable school kids has been known to take place in such unsupervised spaces as school toilets, anyone feeling vulnerable can/should be afforded the option of a single cubicle. Accessible facilities meet this need.

Trans gendered is just one possible reason someone might prefer not to use their sex specific toilets - for me all the loud cool
girls in there were a very real barrier!

These days still I don’t like shared toilets…. maybe I’m even phobic of them. I wait till I get home lol.

Felix says: "I'm worried that if I go in the girls bathroom they will be like 'Oh, why is there a boy in the girls' bathroom?'.

Why does Felix think Felix looks different from any other female? People need to stop thinking that their body tells people about their identity. Felix looks like a girl.

So is Felix expecting a rebuild of the school just for Felix? Spare money in the budget is there?
What would a Portaloo in the corner of the carpark cost? Felix and the Lefties supporting him could hold a fund-raising event - A sponsored something or other I sure some of you could think of something appropriate. A sponsored piss? NO I didn't say that!

In the 1980s, at the school where I taught (in Scotland), a group of girls decided they would rather be boys. They adopted male versions of their names (e.g Paul/ Paula), ‘boyish’ clothes, haircuts and demeanour. The reaction of staff was to say “Teenagers, eh!” and to ignore it. The toilet issue simply never arose. By the time they left school, they had all dropped the male persona.
One of the group told me that she was desperate to leave school because she could not leave the boy thing behind her while in a place where it was well known. Felix and Demetri now have their photographs on a national news site. If they decide they are no longer trans, how can they leave it behind?

I think the only solution is for Felix to be home schooled.

I can relate to Felix a bit. I'm not trans but I was hugely self-conscious as a teen girl so all throughout primary/secondary school I NEVER used the school toilets for the entire time I was there! I was too afraid. Not even to change sanitary towels. It was actually painful sometimes, and I got infections. That's how petrified I was of being vulnerable in that way at school. I know they don't identify as a girl, but physically females are made to feel self-conscious about so much.

Felix has been given a space, the disabled loos. He clearly has absolutely no regard for the privacy of others and thinks his needs trump theirs. This is another reason why I just have no respect for a CERTAIN proportion of the trans community. I've put certain in capitals because I want it to be clear that I'm not transphobic and I realise that not all in the trans community act like this and are perfectly respectable of others.

Tbh, Felix is a young teenager. It’s the adults around Felix who are not acting in Felix’s interests here.

@Bewaldeth Felix is an incredibly middleclass name.

Dh is an architect and he says getting the usual single sex and disabled toilets in to any building can sometimes be a nightmare, let alone all these extra ones.

Schools are designed with space given according to numbers of children; send settings have more space per child. It's really bloody expensive to add a toilet after the building has been built.

I agree pro trans charities should be funding these demands.

I admit to feeling a little uncomfortable at this thread because at the centre of it is a teenager a.k.a a child, however due to the folly of those around them are now not only on the internet for evermore are also subject to criticisms at a pretty personal level (and MN will be tame compared to what will be written elsewhere). I have a huge issue with 'trial by social media' which in effect this is, not only what will be said now but what will follow them in the future. At least for many on here the worst that will follow us from our teenage folly is a few dusty photographs at the back of the wardrobe. It might be fine, Felix may grow in in the current feeling, however Felix may also feel that it is not the right path.

In terms of spaces, for everyone's safety and dignity there needs to be a 3rd space.

How many anecdotes do we think woodenclock will invent before this thread is over? I’m going for at least half a dozen.

Agreed Whitefire.
Felix is a child who should be allowed to navigate their way through adolescence free from adults using them to fight their adult battles. Whether it's the BBC, the adults running the LGBT groups in schools, Stonewall, Mermaids or other lobby groups.
I'm posting Transgender Trend's wise post about the psychological damage being done to children growing up in a body while believing it's not theirs.

www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/

I also think WoodenClock is getting a slightly hard time here. This is the reality of what needs to be rolled back due to the 'influence' of Stonewall and the like. Being kind and inclusive (and not wanting to be seen as being transphobic) has led us to the place where a female bodied child can play rugby with male bodied children and everyone thinks it is progression.

One of my colleagues teenager daughter plays rugby at local club level, her older son is also a very good rugby player, she would think I had absolutely lost my marbles if I suggested that they could play against each other. He is built like the side of a shit-house, she looks like she would blow over in the wind. Why would it suddenly be acceptable if the girl uttered the words 'I'm a boy'?