I'm trans so I've never used the school toilets- BBC artical pro gender neutral toilets

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This is about a trans child FtoM who has been offered the use of male, female or disabled toilets in their school but they are still unhappy as there is no gender neautral toilets.

The article is written as though the child is being discriminated against when the school have been very supportive!

I can understand why 'Felix' feels worried going into boys toilets but they have been offered alternatives.
The argument for not using the disabled toilets is that it would be 'taking it from people who need it' - but single sex spaces for girls are needed too, and these needs are completely disregarded (as usual).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-61167271

However aggressive they are they still can be seriously hurt by colliding with a boy. No one intends to hurt anyone when they tackle but it's nothing but sheer stupidity to have a female student play rugby with boys. And it's luck that child hasn't been hurt.

Have you informed your insurance providers that you have mixed sex rugby?

RoseLunarPink, by “top surgery” do you mean bilateral mastectomies - to remove healthy breasts from young women, preventing them ever being able to breast feed a future child? Because I think coy euphemisms are extremely harmful. Let’s use the correct medical term for what is in fact major surgery.

Yes I do mean that, apologies. When I wrote "fundraising for top surgery", I used that phrase because that's how it's used in that context i.e. I was referring to the kinds of things people do and say in this ideology (likewise I don't actually think a gender coming out party really involves "coming out"). But you are right it needs to be said.

This is in your new build school, specifically thought out with disability in mind by the sound of it. Most schools are not like this at all. This would perhaps work there, especially as the children don’t change for PE. However, most schools will have fewer accessible loos and most have reverted back to uniform all day and changing for PE.

These spaces were hard won and a reasonable adjustment for disabled people and have been designated to those with a specific need. It could also be used by a girl with a heavy period needing to change and clean herself up for example. A school should not be advocating for them to be used for anyone, who wants just because they’re ‘accessible’ rather than for exclusive disabled use. The big wheelchair sign on the door should be hint enough.

I am a woman and a blue badge holder. Protected characteristics should mean something.

My schoolchild needs toilets with a door gap at the bottom for safety (like normal girls toilets). This is in case she has a seizure and collapses so someone will see her.
Mixed sexed toilets (full length door) and disabled toilets don’t work for her. Just before a seizure she gets a bit spaced out so possibly wouldn’t pull an emergency cord.

It's not at all OK to "just use the disabled toilets". I keep seeing this. They're for disabled people, and that's it.

Felix IS female. Presenting as male (whatever that might mean)

Poor, poor Felix has been given every option available but still isn't happy. They want unisex facilities but the changing rooms and toilets were chaos at my old school. I can't imagine being that age, using the toilet, and having only a flimsy partition, that anyone could look under or over, separating me from immature boys.

When my younger sister was at school the Inbetweeners was big and there is a part on that where they take pictures of one of one of the boys on the toilet over the stall door. So of course loads of the kids started doing this.

So the only option would be to tear down the majority of schools and redesign them with Felix in mind. Where are the parents and why are they encouraging this self indulgent rubbish? Are they not concerned that they are raising a child that will struggle to get a job and fit in?

The staff toilets are for the staff. Not the pupils however they may identify. I don’t think any of the male staff in my school would be happy with a female student walking in on them taking a pee at the urinal TBH. That’s got all kinds of safeguarding alarm bells ringing!

Is this confusion regarding the meaning of Gender neutral toilets?

Gender neutral doesn't mean only trans/non binary people can use it, it means anybody can. Which means that the boys Felix wishes to avoid at all costs (and having seen what boys' toilets and packs of teenage boys in an adult free zone are like, I can understand it) and the girls they also wish to avoid (and having been a teenager once, I can completely understand why Felix wouldn't want to be in an adult free zone with a pack of teenage girls and how they treat toilet facilities) could both access the same toilets and Felix would therefore experience the issues of toilets frequently covered in male piss and bullying/harassment/sexual harassment from either sex.

I can also understand a wish to avoid the Disabled toilets, as they invariably have the emergency coin opening locks and teenagers being as they are, the possibility of it being opened for a laugh when Felix is in there is a distinct possibility.

What Felix is possibly actually wanting is a private toilet just for Felix. That's not creating a Gender Neutral toilet. I can understand why it would appeal. But that doesn't mean Felix should be led to expect that it's something Felix is entitled to have and that schools have to find the money to provide, clean and monitor.

Poor, poor Felix has been given every option available but still isn't happy. They want unisex facilities but the changing rooms and toilets were chaos at my old school. I can't imagine being that age, using the toilet, and having only a flimsy partition, that anyone could look under or over, separating me from immature boys

Because nothing is ever enough and that's the whole point..everything that gets granted leads to more demands. Because the whole thing relies on being a victim. The focus just becomes something that can't be changed.. in this case the voices. Given an inch amd people take a mile.

The truth may hurt but it would save all the hassle. And everyone can stop bending over backwards to accommodate the impossible.

So how do you know? If they are able to ‘pass’, then why do staff need to know this is in actual fact a girl dressed as a boy? Hmmm, I wonder?

We have a F-M child just arrived, at 13yo, at our school. You'd never know and the students don't

They are going to notice pretty soon, as puberty hits. Either the child will go through the 'wrong' puberty, or not go through it at all if on PBs. I hope the school has considered safeguarding, if this child is using the boys' toilets.

Also why can't Felix use the boys toilets if Felix is trans- wouldn't Felix feel more comfortable around boys?

This caught my eye. This can't be right because mostly on here if it was Felicia and MtoF nobody would be saying "use the girls' toilets" would they?

I'm in favour of 3rd spaces if no agreement can be reached, although i understand that is a bit of an issue for some trans people.

Well let's think. Because child isn't using legal name, because of the toilet issue, because of the behaviour issues, for safeguarding....

I have a phobia of certain types of toilets and so in five years of secondary school I never used the school toilets either.

Were the school prepared to install a simple white low level toilet with a white seat just for me? Were they fuck. Wouldn't have even dreamt of asking for something that for my specific psychological needs over everyone else's.

They may not know that the child is a girl at the moment @WoodenClock but I can guarantee they will by the time they are 14. Between the ages of 13 and 14, my son grew 5 inches.

That is an appalling lack of safeguarding. I'm really shocked. I would have been furious if I'd found that there was a girl playing rugby with them.

And if you look at the photo of Felix accompanying the article, I can promise you that no one in the school thinks Felix is male.

As I said, all the toilets in our newly built school are unisex, single self contained cubicles

I agree. At 13, most of the boys will only just be hitting puberty. In another coup,dh of years most will tower over a 15 year old girl, with all the benefits of male sex hormones that rage through their body. It will be glaringly obvious that this student actually IS a girl. No matter how good they are at rugby!

Yes and there's a whole industry around reviews, risk assessments and safeguarding.

I agree. At 13, most of the boys will only just be hitting puberty. In another coup,dh of years most will tower over a 15 year old girl, with all the benefits of male sex hormones that rage through their body. It will be glaringly obvious that this student actually IS a girl. No matter how good they are at rugby!

And they want to leave them on a rugby field amongst a bunch of boys that have been.lied too for the past god knows how long . How's that gonna go? You think kids will just be ok at that level of deception

What safeguarding?

You are Leaving a female child at risk of a broken neck in a rugby match . Whatever safeguarding you are doing it's shit.

So in reality the staff are all pretending that this very needy student is the opposite sex to what they actually are, thus going against any common sense safeguarding, plus colluding with what sounds in this case to be some significant psychological issues for this student.
Id bet a small fortune that everyone in school knows this student is female. It’s the emperors new clothes writ large.
as someone has already pointed out about “Felix”, going along with the whole trans issues in children gives those who are suffering from GD, ASD, and other psychological conditions that may make them confused about their identity, as well as those who may be same sex attracted but afraid to come out, gives that child no escape route if they then realise that actually they are Not the opposite sex. How’s that going to work?

How's that gonna go?

Another example of a self-inflicted problem, like the tying-the-shoe-laces-together thing above.

"I reckon this 13-year-old girl can get away with pretending to be male. How about we let her do that now, and we'll all try to keep it up until she leaves school at 18?"

"Why, what a fantastic idea. Can't see any reason not to. In 5 years time she'll be even better at pretending, due to practice, right?"

"Absolutely!"

Staff are doing what they're being advised to do by "experts"

My personal view is that at 13yo, you have a girl who sees its a man's world and therefore wants to be a man, without any deeper understanding. But that's not something you can say out loud in education currently.