Help with talking to a 12 yr old about trans issues

[GoingOnce]

My son has a friend whose sister is apparently now his brother. I sense my son wants to talk to me about this and I want to have the right language to engage sensibly in a conversation. He has swallowed whole the ideology that people can change their gender as this has been “explained” to them at school. The child does not attend my son’s school but still attends a girls school - whilst going by a new name, wearing an adapted and having a special toilet assigned just for them.

The child in question (and the entire family) is struggling. There is self-harm and have been suicide attempts. I do not want to criticise them or their child. But I do want my child to realise that they are being presented with one narrative here. (I am quite certain the parents are simply going along with the whole thing because they are terrified of their child’s mental state and what they might do next. I feel very sorry for them).

Any advice for how I can discuss this sensibly? I can’t believe at age 12 we are already having to talk about all this.

Youre derailing.

I have said several times on this thread i dont agree they should.

What has any of that got to do with the question at hand, which is whether or not it is as socially acceptable for boys to wear 'girls' clothes as it is tje other way round?

You are being deliberately disingenuous, by repeatedly dismissing all valid challenges to your 'ideology' as cliché or fake.

Yeah, but im not.

You cant answer the question because you know its the case.

Oh dear lord. Please don't start with the pronouncing on the inside of other people's heads.

No. I didn't. I am not psychic, and nor, despite what you may think, are you. This will come across as snippy, because right now, I am feeling extremely snippy.

If I, a woman with autism, can grasp that I do not know what people do or do not know, I am quite certain you, some kind of professional in the education field, can. <stalks off muttering>

I've already said that I don't care what they wear.

I know you read it, because you quote tweeted it.

That is not what you were arguing. You implied boys with identities have it harder. This is an issue for men to sort out amongst yourselves. Why don't they accept men in dresses?

I didnt imply that, i said it.

No , it isnt their issue to sort out. Thats just plain sexist

Apologies.

I would assume people would know i didnt think it was perfectly acceptable tl harass and assault, and that that is not wjat i meant by free.

Men not accepting other men is a man issue.

Now that I have found out what was meant, I do not think boys being unable to wear skirts to school outweighs a destructive learning environment for girls.

And again, if boys at any given school want to wear skirts, they will have to do what my mother's generation did with trousers- achieve a social consensus and organise a coordinated action in which they all wear skirts to school.

Whatsapp and other forms of social media could help them with that.

Apology accepted.

But it is what the world is like, whether or not you condone it, and so it must be taken into account when we discuss social inequalities.

So it's up to women to sort out men's behaviour towards other men?

Men also behave unacceptably towards women and girls. My priority, if I had the power to change men's behaviour, would be to stop them from raping, sexually assaulting and sexually harassing women and girls.

Them being a bit unkind to some other men comes a bit lower down my list of priorities.

But since you seem to think that women can change men's behaviour, how do we stop them from raping women and girls?

And again, if boys at any given school want to wear skirts, they will have to do what my mother's generation did with trousers- achieve a social consensus and organise a coordinated action in which they all wear skirts to school.

Like this:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/schoolboys-skirts-isac-academy-exeter-devon-win-battle-shorts-school-uniform-heatwave-dress-code-a7825056.html

@Chickenyhead shared this data in response to you saying:

Last time I looked, there were not adult men sitting in the classroom. And this is what I am referring directly to. The fact that girls are freer in a school socially than boys.

67% of girls have experienced sexual harassment from another student.

Have you taken this on board and will it shape your view on the subject?

It's worrying you didn't realise the prevalence of this issue before considering your job so I'm glad someone cool inform you.

Absolutely this. We (girls and women) have had to fight for our rights for years. Nevermind the fact those hard earned rights are being challenged currently, how about boys and men campaign for the right for them / their peers to be able to be more 'free' socially?

Well live and let live has resulted in the numbers of detransistioners rising, have you ever seeked their stories? It's heartbreaking to hear young boys and girls, who have chopped of their body parts in their teens and early twenties, just to realise it was all a mistake. And live and let live has also resulted in men in womens sports and single sec spaces being eroded away.

No, it's really not.

Lily Madigan has subsequently fallen off the radar, following a series of allegations of sexual assault.

Just to be clear permission - you think Black people are over-represented in prison, crime stats, etc not because they have societal disadvantages but just because they are Black? You say they have the same opportunities as everyone else - no disadvantage due to class, race, etc - as you reject this concept.

There's not really much convincing these 'All Lives Matter' types.

~~Shall friends of Bunbury maybe consider which kind of people we wish to expend our energies on? If someone I met in the pub was to show themselves as massively racist I don't think I'd bother trying to convince them otherwise.~~

Incidentally, as ive always said on these threads ,i dont believe its on a sex to sort out their behaviour. We wouldnt expect that of any other group.

Of course we expect groups to sort out their own behaviour. What planet are you on? If football matches include high incidences of racism and violence, we expect people with power in the football world to try and tackle it.
If people in government abuse their power, we expect people in government to tackle it.
If the police were racist and violent we would expect people in power in the police to sort it out. (Or at least pretend to, I've lost hope really).

Incidentally, one sex has far more actual power in this society than the other. So of course they should try and sort it out.

Yes prelates. I have been off fucking checking on the dear little quokkas. It is such a fucking long way that I am not there yet. Maybe the camel in the bluestocking can help.

Quokkas are weird little beasties aren't they.

Fast as well...no wonder its taking you an age 😀

But a destructive learning environment for girls is irrelevant to the point at hand, and whataboutery.

People are so determined to shut down anything regarding males that the minor point i made pages ago has dragged on. A Pp asked why transgender is so high and why children cant be label less
I pointed out that its far easier for.girls to dress in 'boys'.clothes, if you will, than boys, socially in a school setting..now we are talking aboit harassment and assault which has nothing to do with anything.

I didnt say anything like that, but you and your friends of who ever are more tham welcome.to not engage with me.

Im not unaware of sexual harassment.

My response was what that had to do with the point at hand.

A non grouping, non sexist one.