Just had the labour candidate at my door

[porridgecake]

She called me a racist Daily Mail reader because I said I didn't think a child could consent to being sterilised and I didn't think rapists should be locked up with women. I also said I was disappointed with the poor resources for women wrt domestic violence, maternity care etc and she countered with how things are much worse for transwomen. I disagreed. Then she stomped off saying "Oh fine, you aren't going to vote labour then!"
I hadn't even said that, I said I would like her to persuade me to vote for her.
I suppose they get so cross because at some level they know they are talking nonsense.
I feel quite upset tbh.

Update added by MNHQ: The OP's since discovered that the person was a canvasser, not the actual candidate. The OP's sorry for the error - please see their later updates.

I don’t see that at all. So much derision and anger from Labour supporters.

it’s off putting

I don't see any surfeit of 'derision and anger' from Labour supporters. perhaps there are some gloating Tories though.

I see a lot of pain and sadness from old time Labour supporters that their party has betrayed them and that so many seem to be flocking to the party that has traditionally fucked over women and especially poor women as a result. But then some of us have been feminists for a long time, are also working class or grew up that way, remember Thatcher and are not single-issue voters.

Gosh I do.

On any thread derision towards women caring about women’s rights, or on threads where two posters post a lot and are subject to a fair amount.

I usually avoid those threads

Can only speak for myself but I know when I was younger I would have been a lot quicker to rush to judgement over someone telling me who they were voting for. Got older, met a wider range of people, started seeing grey and not black and white and while I may disagree with someone I would now be far more interested in why they think a certain way and where there is commonality. I may disagree with Tory voters on many, many issues but if there are areas we can agree eg women's rights, then brilliant, will work together on that if nothing else.

More of a shock has been realising that while my natural home and inclination is pretty far left, 'my side' has been appalling on this issue. Not across the board as there are plenty who would support my views and are driving campaigns forward. But from the very vocal the level of derision, no debate attitude and abuse has been an eye opener. Patting themselves on the back and utterly unaware that they display the same misogyny that has always existed, just in some shiny new woke clothes.

@alreadytaken

@montyspython If you were presented with the choice of walking through a pile of horse shit and one of dog shit would you choose one or just say no, I dont have to choose I'll walk away. We have a rubbish electoral system because it is legitimised by people voting. Time to join those who say this is not what I want

While I completely agree our electoral system is ridiculous, it is in need of a full reform (scrap it and start again )

But my question was for people refusing to vote for labour based on them "not knowing what a woman is" when under our current government changes are being made to the detriment of women, and women services, I'm not sure how that is better.

Sadly there is not enough of a movement to make not voting a valid way of changing how our country is run, it is your right to opt out of voting, but it will not currently help reform our electoral system.

I realise we’re all having to make an absolutely shit decision and that we don’t all agree on the best outcome, nevertheless I find it quite bizarre to see women being harangued on a feminist board because we won’t vote for a party that plans to reduce our legal rights.

I've posted this list on other threads, so apologies if you're bored by it, but here is why I won't vote Labour:

I'm going to illustrate all the many reasons why I, a former Labour member, will not be voting for them:

Their support of misogynist troll Lily Madigan as "women's officer" and other such characters

Their abuse of all women shortlists to allow males to stand as "women"

MPs joining secret Facebook groups set up to doxx gender critical women, get them suspended from the party and get them sacked, keeping Stasi like lists in breach of Data Protection law

Suspending gender critical women in disciplinary proceedings worthy of O'Brien and Winston Smith

Key MPs signing a pledge to persecute gender critical feminists within the Labour Party

Key MPs saying that they believed MTF transgender sex criminals had the right to go into women's prison

A leader and numerous MPs who can't bring themselves to define the word woman in any coherent way and make themselves and the party a laughing stock

A party that turns a blind eye to the horrific online abuse of gender critical female MP Rosie Duffield, egged on by left wing commentators on social media

A hugely misogynistic culture overall, with a history of telling women their rights can wait until more important things have been achieved.

I've probably forgotten some, but hopefully that gives an idea of why many women will be making the only protest they can, by not voting for them.

That is a good list.

Your question about it happening under the Tories has been answered in detail on several threads, so I am a little surprised that you claim it is ignored.

Doesn't sound real to me OP. Even if she thought it she's unlikely to say it. Campaigning for the conservatives are we?

When Labour canvassers on this thread have said that they do find it plausible and in some cases they've had to step in to prevent young hotheads from starting doorstep arguments, why do you think that it's unlikely?

If I were a Conservative campaigner, I wouldn't say a word. There would be no need as Labour are fucking this up all by themselves. They could also put things right all by themselves, any time they wanted.

Hows that working?
Pretty much all of us cannot stand boris and lots wont vote for him, but they also wont vote labour. This wont change minds. All labour has to do and very soon or it'll be far too late, is state woman=ahf and promise to keep single sex spaces.*

But if they change their minds months before the general election then no one will believe it.

*For me personally I want more than this, I'm sick of being last, waiting forever for our issues to even be spoken about, let alone fixed. But for right now I'll go with those who know a woman is ahf.

All labour has to do and very soon or it'll be far too late, is state woman=ahf and promise to keep single sex spaces.

But from the stories being told, our spaces are already being imposed on and our services are already being underfunded, I'm not sure why the anger is aimed at the "proposed" rather than the actual.

I didn't post that statement but it seems perfectly straightforward to me and I'm not sure what's angry about it? Is it really so outrageous to expect a left of centre party that prides itself on enlightened policies to commit to upholding our existing rights?

Because we can all see that the political class had been bamboozled, like many of us, in a systematic and devious way.

And many of the problems and impositions were secretly and deviously pushed by groups like SW giving completely false information to all kinds of institutions, including public ones. Lots of regular posters here initially were sympathetic, so of course they understand how political leaders were too.

As the public has become aware of this, the Tories allowed that discussion to play out among their members and mps, and began to back away from some of these problematic issues, and now look poised to make some significant investigations into what happened.

Labour on the other hand has tried to shut down any discussion, and is doubling down on their position, and still seem to plan to move ahead with significant legal changes should they come into power.

I told a Lib Dem canvasser that I used to canvas for Lib Dems too (true) but that I doubted I would ever vote for them again. She said "I think I know why". They can't ignore us forever. The message is getting through.

Why would you not engage exactly the same with a canvasser as the candidate. The canvasser represents the candidate and her opinions. So getting answers from her is exactly the same as getting answers from the candidate. Otherwise what's the point of a canvasser? 🤷

I had a prospective Lib Dem councillor on my doorstep on Friday, he was very young and I said I couldn't vote for him because women's rights. He said straight out that he believes TWAW because he has a friend. he was trotting out the most marginalised, suicide rates etc. I advised him to check his information and where he was getting it.
nice pleasant young man, perfectly civil conversation. I said he hadn't changed my mind it was left wishing each other well. Refreshing

As the public has become aware of this, the Tories allowed that discussion to play out among their members and mps, and began to back away from some of these problematic issues, and now look poised to make some significant investigations into what happened

Which issues are the poised on investigating ?

Labour on the other hand has tried to shut down any discussion, and is doubling down on their position, and still seem to plan to move ahead with significant legal changes should they come into power.

But if the issues are currently being allowed to continue, why is the discussion aimed at the future and not at how women are being let down massively now by this government, how it is unacceptable for women to be treated with contempt now, but it's ok to vote for that and say you are accepting that treatment ?

Is it really so outrageous to expect a left of centre party that prides itself on enlightened policies to commit to upholding our existing rights?

Whilst making it acceptable to vote for a party that is already and has already shown women masses of contempt and let down?

So Lib Dem update for my area. Had the local councillor candidate at my door today posting letters door to door.

It came up quite naturally in conversation, the conservatives are planning on completely cutting the council funding to a local charity centre that amongst other things, support abused women. I asked him if Lib Dem’s pledge to keep this safe space extended to keeping it as a safe single sex space and he agreed he understood the importance, and agreed things would remain as they are.

One of the most baffling things about this issue, and part of the reason why I’ll be interested in seeing if it’s included in election manifestos, is that it seems to be one of the most divisive issues within parties. Lib Dem’s overall seem to be one of the strongest TWAW type supporters so I was surprised to hear his response. I believe I even said in a previous post I thought I would disagree with him on the issue (although I would still vote for him).

Will be very interesting to see how political strategy develops in the next 2 years before the GE

The treatment of children at GIDs is going to be investigated. More and more government bodies are withdrawing from SW schemes, and the PM has said openly that women's sports and spaces need to be protected, which it's reasonable to hope in the next months will begin to see policy movement where that's appropriate. It's also clear they are NOT moving ahead on legal changes like self-id.

I don't know what makes you think there has not been discussion of the now, it's going on every day here, in the media, and now in the HoC. People have been working hard to get these things moving, and there is now movement. There is reason to hope that if the pressure is kept on there will continue to be a response.

Labour isn't on the same page - they aren't even reading from the same book. At this moment in time, if they were to be elected, there is every reason to think they would stop all of that and bring in things like self-id. They have given zero indication that as a party they would not carry on with that policy direction. The best that can be said is that there are now a very few Labour MPs who seem to be a little more open about doubting this approach.

There won't likely be an election soon, so of course they could change direction. SO of course people will pressure them and try and tell them that this is a vote deciding issue for them. The Conservatives have been in power for 12 years, many many people would like a viable alternative, which Labour isn't now.

What do you think people should do, no one owes a political party their vote.

I don’t vote Tory, this thread isn’t even about the Tory party, it’s supposed to be about the behaviour of a Labour Party canvasser. But it’s turned into a neat demonstration of how all Labour have to offer at the moment is deflection, emotional blackmail and abuse.

I was one of the women who was tipped the wink by a Labour insider that Mark Drakeford (Labour First Minister here in Wales and totally in thrall to the gender cult) would be stopping off for a photo opportunity at Swansea Guildhall on Friday.

Drakeford was warned that we were at the Guildhall and rescheduled a secret photo shoot elsewhere — the coward. He was happy to go to Swansea mosque and speak to the men there but not to face a group of 15-20 women with awkward questions to ask. So we asked them of the Labour candidate and their canvassers who were hanging out by the Guildhall. They were defensive and accused us of being provocative and aggressive. One particularly persistent woman approached them on her own and managed to have a brief conversation, but even so the Labour people found it difficult make eye contact and stood there defiantly with their arms crossed, clearly furious with us.

This used to be my party. I've canvassed for various Labour politicians over the years and although I've not agreed with all of them I've never felt as alienated and horrified as I do now. This is the first time I've encountered a group of Labour canvassers with whom I've felt I had nothing in common. I will be be spoiling my vote next week.