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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anyone read this review in Spiked on Grace Lavery's book?

71 replies

PraiseBee · 25/04/2022 11:57

I have to say, I did laugh several times. www.spiked-online.com/2022/04/23/how-the-trans-ideology-dehumanises-women/#.YmSnyIOGefA.twitter

OP posts:
PlinkPlankPlunk · 26/04/2022 20:33

Oh no - the other thread went? Why on earth?

I saw on Twitter earlier that the book about the penis by the person with the penis was at that time rating on Amazon 96,000+ places lower than Helen Joyce’s book Trans - which I found perfectly hilarious Grin

ResisterRex · 26/04/2022 20:41

I felt like BO'N was having to try spectacularly hard not to say the penis book should be cancelled. He certainly sounded perhaps as though he could've been struggling with something akin to vertigo, shall we say.

SpindleInTheWind · 26/04/2022 21:08

ResisterRex · 26/04/2022 20:41

I felt like BO'N was having to try spectacularly hard not to say the penis book should be cancelled. He certainly sounded perhaps as though he could've been struggling with something akin to vertigo, shall we say.

I think it's useful it's out there and can't be deleted with the press of a button.

'Oh but these guys just wanna pee in the stall next to y'all, why are you so fixated?'

'Well actually, Professor Grace Lavery says in this book that that's not quite true ...'

Redshoeblueshoe · 26/04/2022 21:24

Yes indeed Spindle, I guess we are not allowed to quote the next sentence

Rubidium · 26/04/2022 23:07

He did say that now he understands male privilege a little. Douglas Murray said the same thing some months ago. It's an interesting effect from the current debacle that some quite sexist men learn something they would never have learned otherwise.

Here's a clip of Douglas Murray from 2019. Watching Murray here I get the feeling the penny had only recently dropped when this interview took place.

TheBiologyStupid · 27/04/2022 00:17

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 26/04/2022 19:33

Like so many of you, I can’t get over the way this biologically male person has taken one of the most distressing things that can happen to a biologically female person and used it just to create a schlocky image of that male person’s penis.

How much contempt and lack of empathy do you have to have for women (ie bio female people) to do that? How completely insensible must you be to women’s actual pain and loss? How could it even enter your head to come out with that truly awful analogy, if you considered women your sisters or your fellow humans in any way?

It really is quite virulent misogyny. Is Lavery angry at women for being able to experience miscarriage? Punishing us for the crime of actually being female, a condition Lavery seems to fetishise beyond all reason but obviously has zero lived experience of?

I think this individual is a hateful person who gets away with writing hateful things about women because of male privilege. Because the world we live in enables biologically male people to parade their hatred of and contempt for women, while it punishes women for merely recognising and naming that hatred and contempt, for naming the sex of the people doing us such great injustice.

Contrast this book with works by women, female authors like Kathleen Stock and Helen Joyce. Imagine if one of them had written anything even a tenth as offensive, insulting and cruel about biologically male trans people/trans activists as the things Lavery has written here about women.

These women could barely get published even when couching their arguments in the most respectful, considerate, conciliatory tones; no publisher would have touched them with a barge pole if they’d written their work even remotely in the style of Lavery’s misogynistic musings.

And yet the proud penis owner has no trouble being published at all. No problem being stocked on Amazon, or anywhere else. Free to disseminate this turgid misogyny to any woman-hating man or self-hating woman who’ll buy it. As the MN expression goes, vom.

Absolutely, brilliantly put.

Juggins2 · 27/04/2022 02:52

I love my sister who is a trans ally and we have debates sometimes as I'm on the GC side. I forwarded her this article saying somewhat flippantly that perhaps we could finally agree on something.

She got incredibly offended that the reviewer used male pronouns and used humour and judged the book so harshly 'just because it talks about her penis'.

I really struggled to find the words to discuss it with my sister! I agreed the article was offensive but to me it's the direct quotes that are offensive, nor the reviewers comments. I couldn't quite understand that she could read this article and be incredibly angry at how transphobic it was (supposedly) and not feel any upset or disgust at the content of the book.

Help! How do I get through to be incredibly lovely #bekind sister who has a close trans friend.

NecessaryScene · 27/04/2022 06:23

Contrast this book with works by women, female authors like Kathleen Stock and Helen Joyce. Imagine if one of them had written anything even a tenth as offensive, insulting and cruel about biologically male trans people/trans activists as the things Lavery has written here about women.

And yet the proud penis owner has no trouble being published at all. No problem being stocked on Amazon, or anywhere else.

Check this out - some internal Amazon meeting about the books "Johnny the Walrus" and "What is a Woman?":

Amazon leadership held a session for employees dealing with the “trauma” of Matt Walsh’s book becoming a best seller and dealing with his trolling. They strategize on how to demote it on their site and claim he will get people killed. @MattWalshBlog broke them.

twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1519024303982845952

More from the Amazon therapy session for trauma from Matt Walsh’s books: They accuse Matt of hate speech and the host literally breaks down in tears. Attendees are warned “brace yourself” before a clip of Matt reading his book is played. We are living in different realities.

Amazon employees are upset that a MAN is answering the question “what is a woman?” How do they even know if Matt is a man? Maybe he’s a woman? What is a woman? They provide no answer or clues to getting to the bottom of this.

Now try to imagine the parallel internal meetings to deal with books like Lavery's upsetting women... 🙄

Datun · 27/04/2022 07:57

This reply has been deleted

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

Another reviewer goes further:

The thorny topic of toilets is raised and Lavery wants us to know that ‘going to the bathroom is kind of sexy’ (LOC 2015) and sometimes he even wants to let people think that ‘YES I am a piss guzzler, even the sound of it in the next stall get my dead dick hard’.

Lavery pretending to wonder what all the fuss is about toilets rings somewhat hollow.

the-lies-they-tell.org/2022/02/08/review-of-grace-laverys-book/amp/

beastlyslumber · 27/04/2022 08:32

Help! How do I get through to be incredibly lovely #bekind sister who has a close trans friend.

Maybe send her a copy of Lavery's book? Let her see for herself.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 27/04/2022 09:00

Surely the fewer people buy this execrable tome the better. Don't want the publisher thinking people would like more of the same.

Doubletoilandtrouble · 27/04/2022 09:01

This person actually wrote this???

even the sound of it in the next stall gets my dead duck hard 🤮🤮🤮

why do anyone believe that these people “just want to pee”?

Doubletoilandtrouble · 27/04/2022 09:04

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 27/04/2022 09:00

Surely the fewer people buy this execrable tome the better. Don't want the publisher thinking people would like more of the same.

Recommend people to get them from charity shops?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 27/04/2022 09:05

I expect they would say they are just being kind. I would say they are being credulous and as a consequence are being taken for fools.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 27/04/2022 09:11

Buy a used copy off ebay or abebooks

IcakethereforeIam · 27/04/2022 09:23

Have any transwomen given their thoughts on the book? It seems undoubtedly misogynist but casts tw in a poor light. I'm sure some, even most, do just want to pee.

Mandodari · 27/04/2022 13:01

Doubletoilandtrouble · 27/04/2022 09:04

Recommend people to get them from charity shops?

Can't really see the likes of Sue Ryder accepting a book with that title. Maybe a specialist charity shop, one with size 16 stilettos and xxxxxxxl dresses.

SpringLobelia · 27/04/2022 14:20

beastlyslumber · 27/04/2022 08:32

Help! How do I get through to be incredibly lovely #bekind sister who has a close trans friend.

Maybe send her a copy of Lavery's book? Let her see for herself.

That made me laugh. i have literally just had a phone conversation with my 76 year old Gender-critical feminist father who was ranting about a recent conversation he had with my Aunt who has swallowed whole BeKInd and suggested he do exactly that with 'Trans' by Helen Joyce and Lavery's book. (He refused on the latter though as said buying the book would only encourage Lavery).

MrsDanversBroom · 27/04/2022 14:36

Omg what an awesome article, thanks Brendan.

flyingbuttress43 · 27/04/2022 16:12

This leaves me wondering two things: 1) why want to become something that you obviously hate so much i.e a woman and 2) how can a person be so batshit crazy and not be locked up?

nepeta · 27/04/2022 16:42

flyingbuttress43 · 27/04/2022 16:12

This leaves me wondering two things: 1) why want to become something that you obviously hate so much i.e a woman and 2) how can a person be so batshit crazy and not be locked up?

The ones like Lavery hate women except for the one they feel is sprouting from their own insides.

Women are sexual competition for that one and so they are objects of hate, to be shown less beautiful than the 'woman-inside' with worse tits and butt, less sexually appealing, worse dressed and so on and so on.

Once I understood this it was easier to see their misogyny for what it is.

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