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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anyone read this review in Spiked on Grace Lavery's book?

71 replies

PraiseBee · 25/04/2022 11:57

I have to say, I did laugh several times. www.spiked-online.com/2022/04/23/how-the-trans-ideology-dehumanises-women/#.YmSnyIOGefA.twitter

OP posts:
Ellie56 · 26/04/2022 13:30

Yes it was Brendan O'Neill doing the "misgendering." Brendan consistently uses male pronouns and refers to the author as Mr Lavery throughout the review.

I have not read the book but I did use the "Look inside" facility on Amazon.

I gave up the will to live after about three paragraphs. Quite frankly it is the biggest load of unmitigated shite I have ever read. I can't believe it was ever published.
www.amazon.co.uk/Please-Miss-Heartbreaking-Staggering-Penis-ebook/dp/B09PRGDVK5?asin=B09PRGDVK5&revisionId=212316c9&format=1&depth=1

SpindleInTheWind · 26/04/2022 13:36

And to be fair to Brendan O'Neill, he's himself at great pains to quote the exact words written in the Lavery Penis book, partly to prove that he's not making it all up I suspect.

NotAGirl · 26/04/2022 13:47

Brendan O’Neil’s review of the penis haver’s book is funny, first thing he’s written I’ve ever read (MN I’m using a similar term to that widely used to describe women that is particularly relevant in this instance). I’ll pass on reading the book. The description of their penis being like a miscarried foetus is vile and distressing to the many many women like me who have had a miscarriage. And as someone who does not possess a penis I don’t think I have anything in common with the author.

Imevery · 26/04/2022 13:52

Hilarious

Imevery · 26/04/2022 13:54

By which I’m referring to the review rather than NotAGirl’s miscarriage, in case that’s not clear.

Doubletoilandtrouble · 26/04/2022 14:01

@NotAGirl I have had several miscarriages as well. I think few biological women would have such a complete absence of compassion as to make that simile.

But of course, we are talking about a penis person here, one who is so obsessed with their own penis that they have written a book about it.

beastlyslumber · 26/04/2022 14:02

Great review. I've loved Brendan O'Neill's writing on the trans stuff ever since Posie Parker radicalised him. He had Maya on his podcast last week and Sharron Davies the week before.

IcakethereforeIam · 26/04/2022 14:07

Someone mentioned a 5⭐review on amazon, which I had to look up. Completely rb🐀💩. All the other reviews were 1Star. There weren't many, I wonder if Lavery prefers being ignored to being mocked?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 26/04/2022 14:08

As I mentioned on the other thread, there was a bidding war between four publishers to get the rights to this pile of tripe! Meanwhile, Julie Bindel had quite a struggle to find anybody to publish her new book, staff at JKR's agency attempt to refuse to work on one of her books, Gillian Phelps is sacked from her writing job, Rachel Rooney is traduced by other writers and by others associated with publishing, Onjali Rauf is airbrushed out of a list of shortlisted authors by the agent of a rival because of her 't*' views, etc etc.

Waitwhat23 · 26/04/2022 14:14

SpindleInTheWind · 26/04/2022 13:36

And to be fair to Brendan O'Neill, he's himself at great pains to quote the exact words written in the Lavery Penis book, partly to prove that he's not making it all up I suspect.

Yep. Any of the direct quotes from the book included in the review are so outlandishly batshit that if O'Neill had chosen to summarise or paraphrase, it would have been dismissed as being too bizarre to be true. Some of the quotes read like the incoherent ramblings from a fever dream.

SpindleInTheWind · 26/04/2022 14:26

Do you think Lavery was trying to copy the steam-of-consciousness style of the James Joyce / Virginia Woolf era and personae?

Because it didn't work. Dublin and Bloomsbury this ain't. More like streaks of piss than streams of consciousness.

Look MNHQ actual literary critique 🔼

DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 26/04/2022 14:27

Dang, that is a good review.

SpindleInTheWind · 26/04/2022 14:36

DentonsFringeArnottsWaistcoat · 26/04/2022 14:27

Dang, that is a good review.

Thank you for peer review. Minor revisions or good to go?

JaneIsInsane · 26/04/2022 14:53

I think it’s an excellent article and sums up everything I know to be true. But at the same time I’m disappointed in myself a little for agreeing with a man who virtually suggested to the public they should riot as Brexit wasn’t coming quickly enough. 🤷‍♀️😣😂

SpindleInTheWind · 26/04/2022 15:09

Spiked is a bit nuts on climate change as well.

But if we can drag BO'N into science and data on one issue and away from feelings, maybe it's possible on other stuff too. Start with what he can literally see with his own eyes.

It's been very heartening seeing BO'N's journey towards understanding (a bit) what male privilege is and what it looks like.

nepeta · 26/04/2022 15:58

SpindleInTheWind · 26/04/2022 15:09

Spiked is a bit nuts on climate change as well.

But if we can drag BO'N into science and data on one issue and away from feelings, maybe it's possible on other stuff too. Start with what he can literally see with his own eyes.

It's been very heartening seeing BO'N's journey towards understanding (a bit) what male privilege is and what it looks like.

He did say that now he understands male privilege a little. Douglas Murray said the same thing some months ago. It's an interesting effect from the current debacle that some quite sexist men learn something they would never have learned otherwise.

It is fascinating how vicious misogyny is not seen as problematic if the writer is a transgender woman by publishers and so on.

NotAGirl · 26/04/2022 15:58

By which I’m referring to the review rather than NotAGirl’s miscarriage, in case that’s not clear.

No need to clarify we all know women don’t find anything funny about miscarriages. In some circumstances it may be a relief to the woman rather then distressing but regardless of our circumstances it is never funny. Lavery is not the first penis haver to have made vile comments about miscarriages and sadly won’t be the last.

JaneIsInsane · 26/04/2022 17:18

It’s interesting what you’re all saying about men suddenly waking up to this misogyny.

I’m not as fluent or knowledgeable as so many of you on here. I’ve come to this ‘debate’ after many discussions at home with teen boy (18) and teen girl (16). Daughter thinks I’m a horrible bigot, TWAW etc. Son was fairly neutral until he heard a young lad he was at primary school with who now identifies as a woman making comments about how gross periods are and how the thought of them ‘gives him the ick!’ 🤨Now even he wonders if it’s just (in his words) ‘sex fantasy’

EdithStourton · 26/04/2022 17:36

From the review:
Lavery is an associate professor of English at Berkeley in California. (Jesus Christ.)
Yep. My feelings exactly.
I suspect this thread will be pulled as 'not in the spirit' because it's a critique of one person. A person who has been utterly repellent about miscarriage and deserves to have (possessive pronoun's) arse handed to (pronoun).

WhiteFire · 26/04/2022 17:48

"Patience is a virtue,
Virtue is a Grace
And Grace is a pretty girl
Who never washed her face"

ErrolTheDragon · 26/04/2022 18:37

EdithStourton · 26/04/2022 17:36

From the review:
Lavery is an associate professor of English at Berkeley in California. (Jesus Christ.)
Yep. My feelings exactly.
I suspect this thread will be pulled as 'not in the spirit' because it's a critique of one person. A person who has been utterly repellent about miscarriage and deserves to have (possessive pronoun's) arse handed to (pronoun).

It's about a book review.

And it seems from that review, it's a book which includes quite a lot of 'critique' of Mumsnet users, so surely it's only fair we can comment on it?

Sounds like GL is quite eaten up with envy of real breasts which can produce warm, sweet, nourishing milk. No coldness or sourness about them, or us.

Whereas afaik women are only envious of dicks during long walks without deep cover.Grin

Genesis1v27 · 26/04/2022 19:18

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RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 26/04/2022 19:33

Like so many of you, I can’t get over the way this biologically male person has taken one of the most distressing things that can happen to a biologically female person and used it just to create a schlocky image of that male person’s penis.

How much contempt and lack of empathy do you have to have for women (ie bio female people) to do that? How completely insensible must you be to women’s actual pain and loss? How could it even enter your head to come out with that truly awful analogy, if you considered women your sisters or your fellow humans in any way?

It really is quite virulent misogyny. Is Lavery angry at women for being able to experience miscarriage? Punishing us for the crime of actually being female, a condition Lavery seems to fetishise beyond all reason but obviously has zero lived experience of?

I think this individual is a hateful person who gets away with writing hateful things about women because of male privilege. Because the world we live in enables biologically male people to parade their hatred of and contempt for women, while it punishes women for merely recognising and naming that hatred and contempt, for naming the sex of the people doing us such great injustice.

Contrast this book with works by women, female authors like Kathleen Stock and Helen Joyce. Imagine if one of them had written anything even a tenth as offensive, insulting and cruel about biologically male trans people/trans activists as the things Lavery has written here about women.

These women could barely get published even when couching their arguments in the most respectful, considerate, conciliatory tones; no publisher would have touched them with a barge pole if they’d written their work even remotely in the style of Lavery’s misogynistic musings.

And yet the proud penis owner has no trouble being published at all. No problem being stocked on Amazon, or anywhere else. Free to disseminate this turgid misogyny to any woman-hating man or self-hating woman who’ll buy it. As the MN expression goes, vom.

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 26/04/2022 19:45

OMG I’ve just read some of the Amazon “look inside”.

This person is a Professor of English? Western culture is doomed, I tell you. Doomed.

ChiefInspectorParker · 26/04/2022 20:17

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