School allowing boy to change in girls changing room secondary school

[Saffy6]

Hi my teenage daughter has told me there is a boy who identifies as a girl changing with the girls in their communal changing room. I have emailed the school who have confirmed this and stated that cases are dealt with individually but in most cases “trans students would have access to the changing room or toilet that corresponds to their gender identity. This approach is supported by the equality act 2010” None of the parents have been informed. Some of the girls are uncomfortable but do not feel they can say anything as they are afraid of being accused of transphobia.

My other daughter in year 9 has 3 girls in her class now identifying as boys (changed name and pronouns). Surely if they want to change in the boys changing rooms they will be allowed to too?

I’ve contacted safe schools alliance and I intend to challenge this policy. My question is, is this the norm? What is your schools policy on transgender kids and changing rooms and has anyone been in a similar position where you challenged this policy and what was the outcome?

@Saffy6 Our school are following a trans inclusion toolkit, which is raising similar issues, including mixed sex accommodation on a school trip.

Ask the school to show you what policy or guidance they're following. They can't just say 'case by case' ie 'we're making it up as we go, but this kid seems nice'. What criteria are they using to decide which male children are safe to change with the girls? How have they risk-assessed this?

Even if other schools are doing something different, your school may still be following one of the alarming 'trans inclusion toolkits' which have been put in place by local authorities all over the country. (Because they're 'guidance' or 'toolkits' rather than a policy, councils will say that it's up to schools to decide whether to follow it and do their own risk assessments, and schools will say 'it's council guidance so we're just doing what we're told'...) If you're in touch with Safe Schools Alliance they'll have useful advice.

Many of these toolkits have been withdrawn following legal challenge. eg Oxfordshire and Rhondda Cynon Taf.
www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/18434781.oxfordshire-council-transgender-guide-scrapped-girls-court-case/
merchedcymru.wales/2021/08/22/rct-trans-kit-review-is-a-warning-to-welsh-government/

The toolkits misrepresent equality law, telling schools they're legally obliged to allow children to use the facilities of their 'true gender identity, introduce huge safeguarding risks (mixed-sex bedrooms on school trips) and tell schools they must change children's names and pronouns on request, and must not inform parents unless the child gives permission.

And everyone else - do check what your council is doing! Email to ask what their policy is. Make an FoI request if you need to (Check on www.whatdotheyknow.com/ to see if someone already has, and then it's a very easy process.) If there's an election in your area talk to your Council candidates about this. The candidate I spoke to said he was very supportive of trans rights, and said he thought the toolkit sounded a good idea, and then had to pick his jaw up off the floor when I explained the implications of these well meaning policies. Councillors are approving these things thinking it's all 'let's be nice' and really haven't thought this through. The result is that councils are forcing schools to put our children into very risky situations.

That’s an easy response to the school. Gender Identity is not covered in the Equality Act 2010. Gender Reassignment is. And that can only happen age 18+. So what they are doing is not covered by law and not only that that law states that single sex spaces are protected.

@Blessex The definition of gender reassignment is very broad - 'Intention' to undergo a process is enough, and there's nothing to say it only applies to over 18s. However the Equality Act definitely doesn't state that the 'gender reassignment' characteristic confers a right to use facilities of the opposite sex. The Equality Act specifically outlines scenarios where it's lawful to discriminate (single sex exemptions for eg sports, changing rooms and sleeping accommodation) if it's a proportionate means to a legitimate end (safety, fair competition etc).

IANAL but I think there is case law confirming that the comparator for gender reassignment is 'that person if they were not undergoing gender reassignment'. eg you can't sack someone for transitioning, or exclude them from an activity they could have taken part in if they weren't transitioning.

It's incredible that guidance has got through Councils and into schools telling staff that the Equality Act says that everyone must pretend that a child has literally changed sex from the moment the words 'I'm trans' fall from their lips. It really doesn't!

Are boys changing with girls? Are parents putting up with this? Ffs which local authority is this? If we are doing this to our children, the most vulnerable how long before I’m in my local gym and a 6ft 2 bloke comes in and starts stripping and I can’t do anything about it. Fucking hopping mad! And how comes you don’t see loads of people in their forties suddenly liberating themselves by proclaiming they are changing their sex. It’s only kids being fed this dangerous gender crap!

And how comes you don’t see loads of people in their forties suddenly liberating themselves by proclaiming they are changing their sex. It’s only kids being fed this dangerous gender crap!

are you new here?

I think saffy might be referring to the lack of older women changing gender compared to the explosion of teenage girls who now identify as men.

Our secondary school has said absolutely no to changing or overnight accommodation by gender not sex on safeguarding grounds, although they do let kids do PE with the boys or girls according to gender if they ask. They have offered use if sixth form toilets (individual non gendered cubicles) to students who feel uncomfortable using toilets of their biological sex.

I think there is case law confirming that the comparator for gender reassignment is 'that person if they were not undergoing gender reassignment'. eg you can't sack someone for transitioning, or exclude them from an activity they could have taken part in if they weren't transitioning.

And furthermore, the comparator is a person of the same [birth] sex as the person undergoing gender reassignment. Not the gender they wish to acquire. IYSWIM.

FFS as if PE lessons aren't hideous enough without making the changing room experience even worse.

How can any normal adult support the stance of teenage girls being expected to undress in front of males, and being told off if that makes them feel uncomfortable?

It strikes me that these scenarios discriminate against females by forcing them to change with a male or else participate in an activity. And sex is a protected characteristic.

The focus always seems to be either on the right of the trans-identified child on the one hand, or the dignity of girls/women on the other.

But really, this is discrimination against females on the grounds of sex. The school is saying that females in that class can only do PE if they are willing to undress in front of a male.

Indeed, the adults that have enforced this policy could also be classed as engaging in child sexual exploitation.

"Child sexual exploitation is a form of child sexual abuse. It occurs where an individual or group [in this case, the Head teacher or teachers] takes advantage of an imbalance of power to coerce, manipulate or deceive a child or young person under the age of 18 into sexual activity [in this case, nudity in front of a member of the opposite sex] (a) in exchange for something the victim needs or wants, and/or (b) for the financial advantage or increased status of the perpetrator or facilitator. [in this case, the status of "Stonewall law"]. The victim may have been sexually exploited even if the sexual activity appears consensual."

I don't think my daughter was mistaken. I believe the school realised they had misinterpreted the law do told the boy he could no longer do this. I've since heard he has left the school. So another school's problem now.

@Torunette You're absolutely right. The guidance toolkits are mostly very thin on actual guidance, just telling schools that trans children have a right to this or that, but no help with how to make this happen (because doing so would inevitably mean acknowledging the existence of other people). The toolkit in our case has airy statements about rights and just two 'scenarios', always proposed to be resolved at the expense of females.
Girl doesn't like changing next to a male? Exclude her from her changing room and sports
Parents worried about their female child playing rugby with boys? Just exclude any girls who don't like playing against boys, and obviously anyone who's worried about safety needs re-educating because this is 'their problem'. (I am terrified we are going to see a girl injured or killed on a sports field because of bonkers policies like this.)

Scenario 1. My daughter doesn’t want a boy changing next to her, what if he looks at her body? For example, in this scenario it would not be appropriate to remove the trans person from the changing rooms if a concern is raised by a parent or carer. In this situation, it would be far more appropriate to look at offering an alternative changing arrangement for the child who feels uncomfortable around the trans person. A Human Rights response would be to state that although the individual in question may have the body of a boy, they are in every other respect a girl and as such have the right under the Equality Act to change with the girls and to be treated fairly as such. It is the responsibility of members of staff to support both trans students and cisgender students to feel comfortable around one another.

Scenario 2. It’s not fair that he enters the 100 metres race for girls when he is a boy OR won’t she get injured playing rugby with boys? Similarly, pupils or students who feel that a trans child should not be involved in certain sporting activities may themselves need to be supported to do a different activity. This kind of support acknowledges that some individuals may struggle to understand trans people or initially feel uncomfortable around them but does not support the idea that trans people should be treated any differently to cisgender people. The responsibility lies with the individual who has the problem, to deal with that problem, not with the trans person to accommodate that person’s insecurity around them or their child

What these toolkits never do (as they're written by those self interested in trans with no qualifications in education, PE, child development / psychology) is take account of the safeguarding and health and safety issues.
PE teachers don't send different groups of children off to change in random cupboards / toilets elsewhere in the school. Supervision of changing rooms is always a challenge - they can be hotspots for bullying and PE teachers have to manage that while trying to allow children privacy. Then there's the adult transwoman PE teacher expecting to supervise the girls changing room!

Drives me mad that schools are so scared of the trans extremists that they lose the professional confidence to tell these groups to piss off with this predatory rubbish.

Unlike a previous poster, I don't think it should be up to your DD. If she says "I'm not happy with this, Mum" and then you say "My DD doesn't want to do this" then she will be labelled as unkind.
Tell the school and your DD that this will not be happening, and either they will allow the girls to change in a single sex space or your DD will not be participating in PE.

I don’t understand why the department of education just don’t step up and tell schools straight to prioritise girls and safe sex spaces. I would blame the conservative government for letting this happen under their watch but quite frankly given the comments by the labour and liberals the prospect of them having the power to make these policies terrifies me.

@Saffy6 I wrote to the EHRC to ask about guidance on single sex spaces in schools. They told me that their recent guidance about single sex spaces is not intended to cover schools, and that they have asked the Dept of Education to issue guidance. So yes, definitely worth contacting them to tell them about this situation and how importance this guidance will be.
Contact the Department for Education - Contact type - DFE Online Forms

(If you live in Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland it's unlucky, because the EHRC clarified that they haven't written to the devolved governments...)

And ALL the main political parties hold responsibility for this mess. They've all been far too willing to go along with the demands of a minority without considering the implications for anyone else.

I think this wording is in our local toolkit too. The second example makes me so angry! Also what the heck does this mean: "although the individual in question may have the body of a boy, they are in every other respect a girl"???

What other respects?

Transwomen at school age are staggeringly uncommon, and even less so to be a "lesbian".

Because they have a duty of care to all students.

i emailed the school and told them that it was their choice to prioritise gender over sex when it came to toilets and changing rooms and it was perfectly legal under equalities act to provide single sex spaces along with a list of questions and scenarios. Got an email back which did not respond to any of my questions in writing only a promise I would receive a call from safeguarding teacher. It’s been several days and getting a bit peeved that they haven’t come back.

My husband spoke to a work colleague today who has a daughter there and she was completely unaware of situation and said she would be removing daughter if this was the case. Think if it’s their policy they should be shouting about it loudly. “We are proud to announce we will be removing safe sex single spaces for girls”

Hang on.
They have a legal requirement to support all pupils.

You are making this about you and your views. It isn't.

If people want to remove their child from the school based on this, let them.

Yes, it's absolutely about that.

Nothing to do with the pupil at hand.

Perfect. Let's have all the girls boycott a subject to single out and victimise and bully a pupil who didn't make the bloody policy in the first place.

I'm sure that won't affect them at all.

Out of sheer interest.

How many of the above posts are OK with lesbian pupils in the changing rooms with the girls?