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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Javid compares fears over trans issues to fears of racism in Rotherham

172 replies

Magenta82 · 22/04/2022 22:38

He is launching an inquiry into the treatment of children and is concerned that other issues are ignored once gender identity is mentioned.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0fea92e4-c265-11ec-8413-422ef6319ad0?shareToken=f3b10324b4fd398ce341189a72a727dc

It looks like things are changing!

OP posts:
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benevernomore · 23/04/2022 14:49

Well he's right about the analogy with Rotherham. We have clearly learnt nothing from that, as if we were we would have been able to have a reasonable, evidence based discussion about all this.

SpindleInTheWind · 23/04/2022 15:22

Yes Mordaunt called for a review as Equalities Minister in 2019, but only when it was clear that the 2000%+ increase in referrals of girls to GIDS was firmly in the public domain and being painted as an incipient scandal. She was always a TRA though, through her beliefs and friendship circle.

After being shunted (by Johnson) across to being Paymaster General she shamelessly used a moment at the Despatch Box talking on behalf of the Government to intone 'TWAW and TMAM' as though that was Government policy.

As pp have said upthread ^^, it's this ideology that is the problem and which prevents clear thinking and accurate data collection. It's absolutely catastrophic for children's safeguarding.

Mordaunt has since been shunted across to being a junior(ish) Minister for International Trade. To think she was once being touted as future Prime Minister material.

BootsAndRoots · 23/04/2022 20:57

This isn't a political move, because this issue still ranks as the lowest interest in polling. As health minister it is his job to look at this, and potentially a future enquiry could see previous health ministers questioned over their lack of action and found liable.

As various ministries pull away from Stonewall (although many civil servants are still on their books) they are finding less opposition to starting this reviews.

JessHopeThinks · 24/04/2022 07:37

ResisterRex · 23/04/2022 12:32

In the maelstrom of organisations we might want to email MPs about, of course there is Stonewall and Mermaids but let's not forget some of the others:

GIRES
Gendered Intelligence
Twinkl (their school resources have been highly questionable)
Childline
Barnardos
NSPCC
National Children's Bureau
Children's Society
LGBT Foundation / MORF

Any missing?

PinkNews content on Snapchat?

ResisterRex · 24/04/2022 07:48

@JessHopeThinks @Hoardasurass - repost with updates:

In the maelstrom of organisations we might want to email MPs about, of course there is Stonewall and Mermaids but let's not forget some of the others:

GIRES
Gendered Intelligence
Twinkl (their school resources have been highly questionable)
Childline
Barnardos
NSPCC
National Children's Bureau
Children's Society
LGBT Foundation / MORF
Pink News and Snapchat
The Proud Trust
School of Sexuality Education
TikToks of the above incl SW and Mermaids
Exist Loudly - remember this?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8c46aad6-f461-11ea-9de6-a6e4d4016fb7?shareToken=14e51b832fc01a217f48b14d8fec4d4c

Coconutmeg · 24/04/2022 08:26

Not even just following up to see if there are regrets, but have those kids gone in to have happier lives thanks to the treatment? Were their mental health struggles alleviated?

Theunamedcat · 24/04/2022 08:41

Surely they should follow up for the success storys

MarshaBradyo · 24/04/2022 08:46

Good to hear changes are happening.

re politics on one hand other posters gleefully tell us no one cares at the same time it’s only for votes

Ime Labour is struggling because it cannot be straight forward and sensible and this is simply the right direction, which is easy to take if you are not beholden to a minority ideology.

TheCurrywurstPrion · 24/04/2022 09:02

Given the historical difficulties with follow up that have long been noted, there was a great opportunity for those at GIDs (or any other group that ran clinical trials) to attempt something new, where there was a real attempt to carry out a much longer term follow up. It would have been justified, under the circumstances, to make the attempt. Obviously follow up is difficult, but very few seem even to have considered it.

I am interested in the 200 out of 2500 figure. I find myself wondering whether they considered each case on its merits in comparison with the protocols established by the Dutch study, or whether they used a comparative model, where they selected just under 10% of cases, because it had been previously established that 90% would desist on going through puberty.

If it was the latter, the flaw is obvious. The 90% who desisted were 90% of the tiny group with very serious problems, who would have been referred back in the days when referral would only be made when it was obvious there was a fairly well defined and well established, ongoing feeling of dysmorphia.

Total referrals in 2009-10 were 77. 10% of that group would be 8 patients whose dysmorphia would persist and who would eventually go through medical transition.

If the rise in figures is mostly due to social contagion or fashion or misunderstanding, rather than a genuine revealing of patients who ought to have been referred before, but weren’t due to ignorance, then there’s a huge problem, even if we assume they selected the correct 10% from the old category.

Potentially, if 8 out of that 200 were the ones who really would benefit from transition, then 192 of them probably didn’t need to.

And now I feel properly sick.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 24/04/2022 09:30

Theunamedcat · 22/04/2022 22:43

I'm cautious about this is there an election they need brownie points for?

But this is a huge step forward, whether or not he's seeking brownie points. So few politicians or influencers have had the guts to say this. Javid has opened's comments and actions, as health secretary, have enormous impact. And his words are widely reported.

We already know that when people find out what's really going on, they are appalled. The gender-identity movement made huge gains by linking T with LGB, and by using the Be Kind mantra. Both these tactics made people think it was just a call for tolerance of people's differences. Reality the removal of women's rights, the undermining of child safeguarding is now starting to show through.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 24/04/2022 09:32

Javid has opened's comments and actions, as health secretary, have enormous impact. And his words are widely reported.

Ooops - meant to say
Javid''s comments and actions, as health secretary, have enormous impact. And his words are widely reported.

Magenta82 · 24/04/2022 09:54

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 24/04/2022 09:30

But this is a huge step forward, whether or not he's seeking brownie points. So few politicians or influencers have had the guts to say this. Javid has opened's comments and actions, as health secretary, have enormous impact. And his words are widely reported.

We already know that when people find out what's really going on, they are appalled. The gender-identity movement made huge gains by linking T with LGB, and by using the Be Kind mantra. Both these tactics made people think it was just a call for tolerance of people's differences. Reality the removal of women's rights, the undermining of child safeguarding is now starting to show through.

I agree. The more light that is shined on this the better. Most people want to do the right thing and unless you actually investigate yourself then you think that being kind is the right thing.

I thought it was right to just go along and make room because that was the narrative. I saw that women on mumsnet were saying different things so I posted to ask why. A lot of people thought I was trolling, but the people who explained and pointed me in the right direction helped me to change my mind.

Sometimes rights are pie and carving up the rights and safety of women and children to appease the feelings of a small minority of men is not right or kind. Children need safeguarding and this has been a blind spot for too long.

OP posts:
ResisterRex · 24/04/2022 10:04

I firmly believe there will one day be a national inquiry into medicating children, operating on them, and all the things that surround and support it (the lobby groups, online influence, RSE driven by lobby groups). Javid might be covering his arse. He might not. He was quite active on online child sexual abuse as Home Secretary so maybe he genuinely has an interest in protecting children.

But the way things are going, I can't see how there won't be an inquiry. Once people start suing in large numbers, it'll have to be considered at least.

Whatever this particular action is - and is it:

  • extra powers for Cass
  • a special piece of work to feed into Cass (in which case then surely Cass will not do a final/end report this summer)
  • a wholly separate inquiry?

Whatever it is, it can't come too soon.

nothingcomestonothing · 24/04/2022 12:08

I've emailed the Health Sec in support of this inquiry - people in power need to know people care about this issue

MarshaBradyo · 24/04/2022 12:15

nothingcomestonothing · 24/04/2022 12:08

I've emailed the Health Sec in support of this inquiry - people in power need to know people care about this issue

Good idea

I emailed recently in support of other recent comments, will do the same

tabbycatstripy · 24/04/2022 12:19

I think Javid genuinely wants to protect children. Most people do. He probably realised post-pandemic, Hancock and Hunt, that the Health Service is a mess, and GIDS has been able to fly under the radar.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 24/04/2022 12:26

tabbycatstripy · 24/04/2022 12:19

I think Javid genuinely wants to protect children. Most people do. He probably realised post-pandemic, Hancock and Hunt, that the Health Service is a mess, and GIDS has been able to fly under the radar.

Javid needs to recognise what a tragedy in plain sight CAMHS are and to fund it properly and to come up with a clear plan to train sufficient people to provide a good quality service that is accessible and not such a postcode lottery.

It's not sufficient to have an enquiry into GIDS without understanding other major actors and contributors to this mess.

tabbycatstripy · 24/04/2022 12:28

‘It's not sufficient to have an enquiry into GIDS without understanding other major actors and contributors to this mess.’

I’d support a much broader ‘how did we get here?’ inquiry as well.

Datun · 24/04/2022 12:36

He also needs to kick off some research into how these drugs affect mental, emotional and intellectual maturity.

It's no good asking how children are after medical transition, if you don't realise they're talking to you with the mind of a ten year old.

Manderleyagain · 24/04/2022 13:48

Faffertea · 23/04/2022 13:19

A quick google suggests there were just over 2500 children referred to GIDS in 2018-2019 so the 10% getting PBs may be correct but as others have said what we need to know what the reasons are for those who weren’t given PBs. What proportion of the 2500 became unsuitable and why?

On p 34 of the interim report from the cass review it says there is no published data on what happened to the rest which were not referred for puberty blockers or hormones. She says they could have decided not to go for that treatment, moved on to adult services, sought private treatment, amongbotger things.

cass.independent-review.uk/publications/interim-report/

As a PP pointed out it came out in one of the trials - Sonia Appleby tribunal?- that gids did not think they had ever assessed a child as not gillick competent to consent for pb's. So they always worked on the premis that the child's consent was legit. So even only 200 a year needs proper investigation, especially in the context of staff saying they felt pressured to be affirmative only, and a lack of discussion on the issue, and the other problems cass talks about.

Manderleyagain · 24/04/2022 14:17

But I still don't get what thd 'inquiry' is, and how it differs from what cass is doing anyway.

teawamutu · 24/04/2022 15:00

Have Labour said anything of note about the Cass Review?

ResisterRex · 24/04/2022 16:28

The Observer has covered this. Including quotes from Dr Bell, Mermaids, Stonewall and Labour sources:

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/24/sajid-javid-plans-review-of-impact-of-gender-dysphoria-treatment

tabbycatstripy · 24/04/2022 16:32

Labour calling it part of a ‘culture war’ is shocking. You expect this negligence from Mermaids. You don’t expect it from the Opposition. Well, maybe you do these days.

OldCrone · 24/04/2022 16:45

Quote in the Observer article from Lui Asquith of Mermaids:

“Some young people are trans, and some of them need puberty blockers to be comfortable and able to engage properly in life."

What does 'some young people are trans' mean? Are they 'born in the wrong body'? Are they repelled by the sexual characteristics of their own body? Do they just not like the stereotypes associated with their sex? If people are going to insist that some people 'are trans' we need a definition of what 'trans' means.

And why do children 'need puberty blockers to be comfortable and able to engage properly in life'? What need are these drugs fulfilling by halting their normal development into adults? How are they going to engage properly in life when they have the bodies (and brains) of children as their peers develop into adults? Why can they not just be helped to accept their bodies?

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