Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A simple way to explain to DH why he shouldn't* include pronouns on his email signature at work

83 replies

WookeyHole · 19/04/2022 14:19

I really get so confused about the whole gender issue and each time I try and explain myself, I get tied up in knots. I've tried with good friends who've basically said I sound like a transphobe, which isn't my intention. I'm just not keen on women not having their own spaces.

Please can you give me a couple of sentences to explain to DH why I think it's a bad idea to include pronouns and the bigger picture it makes him a part of?

*obviously he's a grown man and can make his own mind up, but I'd like him to consider the other point of view to the Stonewall trans bandwagon he's been fed at work

OP posts:
Ionlydomassiveones · 20/04/2022 17:09

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

IamAporcupine · 20/04/2022 17:11

I suppose that when TRAs say that stating your pronouns is 'supportive of trans people', what they really mean that it's a way of proving that you believe TRA ideology, rather than that it actually helps real trans people in your workplace in any real or meaningful way.

This 100%.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 20/04/2022 17:34

IamAporcupine · 20/04/2022 17:11

I suppose that when TRAs say that stating your pronouns is 'supportive of trans people', what they really mean that it's a way of proving that you believe TRA ideology, rather than that it actually helps real trans people in your workplace in any real or meaningful way.

This 100%.

JKR, has posted a Vaclav Havel thread that perfectly captures why this is compelled speech that is likely endured through fear rather than for any belief in a value for others other than a signal of our fear and compliance.

twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1516793678265827333?s=20&t=zoNQwQziZIj2MNsNqVzZaQ

in response to Dr Em's tweet.

It feels like TWAW as a mantra and cancelling women over accusations of transphobia was intended to test loyalty over reason and will she stand up to power or at best turn a blind eye to save her own skin. Does she value career advancement or doing the right thing?

twitter.com/PankhurstEM/status/1516758470313271299?s=20&t=zoNQwQziZIj2MNsNqVzZaQ

Havel describes this so well. I like this section (6/12 quoted by JKR):

Let us take note: if the greengrocer had been instructed to display the slogan "I am afraid and therefore unquestioningly obedient;' he would not be nearly as indifferent to its semantics, even though the statement would reflect the truth.

My only addition would be from Solzhenitsyn:

And the simplest and most accessible key to our self-neglected liberation lies right here: Personal non-participation in lies. Though lies conceal everything, though lies embrace everything, we will be obstinate in this smallest of matters: Let them embrace everything, but not with any help from me.

honestyculture.com/alexander-solzhenitsyn-live-not-by-lies/

Misstache · 20/04/2022 18:07

As I learned in work training, we don’t say “preferred“ pronouns because it’s not a matter of preference it’s LIFE OR DEATH.

YouSetTheTone · 20/04/2022 18:39

Putting pronouns in an email is the equivalent to putting the trans flag on there. Your DH then becomes an advert for an ideology that shits all over women.

Does he see ‘no harm’ in becoming an advert for that ideology?

In Lia Thomas smashing women’s sporting records? (While also walking around a changing room with an erection on display?)
In women and girls being told their boundaries don’t matter?
In women self-excluding from rape crisis centres?
In women being raped on hospital wards and being told it didn’t happen because there were ‘no men’ there?
In women being assaulted in prisons by male prisoners?
In children being pushed down medical pathways to alter their bodies to fit stereotypes about the opposite sex?

He sees no harm at all in any of those things?

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 20/04/2022 18:58

Misstache · 20/04/2022 18:07

As I learned in work training, we don’t say “preferred“ pronouns because it’s not a matter of preference it’s LIFE OR DEATH.

Does anyone recall comparable EDI training that asserts the impact of (say) preferred communication styles such as:
—culturally insensitive microaggressions
—ignorance about how to be accessible to a deaf person
—indifference to accommodations for someone with cognitive/learning disabilities
—a limited range of languages
—an absence of plain language, audio as well as text versions
is a matter of LIFE OR DEATH?

Misstache · 20/04/2022 19:14

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 20/04/2022 18:58

Does anyone recall comparable EDI training that asserts the impact of (say) preferred communication styles such as:
—culturally insensitive microaggressions
—ignorance about how to be accessible to a deaf person
—indifference to accommodations for someone with cognitive/learning disabilities
—a limited range of languages
—an absence of plain language, audio as well as text versions
is a matter of LIFE OR DEATH?

Even worse, we were forced to watch about 5 hours of videos from the Trans trainer where they told us all these details about themselves, and then we had to do a quiz, where it would be like “transition means…” and the correct option was “it’s none of your business whether someone is trans or how they transition.” Literally the answer to half the questions were “it’s not your business.” So why are you telling me for hours about your transition, sexuality, etc.?

What other group would make you take hours of training and then be like “why are you so obsessed with us?”

There was about a half hour video on pronouns and how we should practice “removing binary language from our every day.” Ridiculous.

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 20/04/2022 21:22

For me it signals that you believe that gender identity is more important than biological sex. Given the swathe of evidence proving the disadvantage that women suffer it also, therefore, to me signals that you are not interested in redressing the balance and/ or that you have a limited grasp of science. To me it signals someone who is not interested in equality issues rather just interested in looking like they are at superficial glance.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page