NCS will put my child into a "self-identified gendered accommodation"

[Unwantedgift]

Hi. First time posting here but I've got two children who have introduced me to the world of gender ideology. DD desisted, DS going through it right now. Wondering what I can say to the NCS safeguarding lead about the above.

Background is that DS is going this summer to a 2w course, the first of which is residential, and I know he's applied as "female gender" (self-diagnosed as GD and not on any medication). I raised concerns about the dorm arrangement in the NCS parent survey. The service provider called me and said:

"In line with government guidelines, we will allow the young people to self-ID and they will be put into whichever dorm they feel comfortable in. They'll be supervised at all times".

When I questioned whether they didn't have any safeguarding concerns about this, they said they'll get the NCS safeguarding lead to call me.

I'll ask for their risk assessment, and have studied the Equality Act... but has anyone else dealt with NCS on this issue before? How can they possibly think it's OK to let an entirely biological 16YO boy be in a girls dorm?

I’m more concerned at DS having to share with straight lads who seem to get a bit tribal around gay lads.

Male homophobia is far more of a problem than transphobia. The focus for those on your DS's trip should be about the various ways men are male & masculine - let's start to "broaden the bandwidth" of being a man.

Thank you for thinking about the girls and I really hope your son will find himself soon

Massive red flag for safeguarding and how good you are to bring it up with them. I doubt they will be able to provide 'government guidelines'. The NSPCC has a document here and there that says the same thing but it is wrong. It is sex discrimination.
The worst thing is the NCS will keep this a secret from the parents of the girls (another safeguarding red flag).

Factsheet 15 may help you.safeschoolsallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/

Girls and women can not be used as a shield for boys and men who are vulnerable That's a good quote, I might store it in the old Mind Palace for future reference, with pps's permission.
I echo the thanks from pps about raising this @whenwilliwillibefamous. My own dd is attending NCS this year, and the idea is that its a safe environment for girls and boys to mix and network with other teens in the area, get a great experience and learn some life skills. Safe isn't an appropriate word if males are allowed to self id into girls accommodation. Yes I know most will be the age of consent, but the majority are still children in adult bodies and we don't want them gaslighted into accepting males into their safe spaces. And of course they won't be supervised at night!

I can’t take credit for that phrase @PutinIsAWarCriminal. I almost certainly read it on MN!

@tabbycatstripy

Absolutely not okay. How are they intending to safeguard the dignity and privacy of female students? How are they intending to prevent sexual activity? Supervised at all times by female members of staff, or self-identifying members of staff?

At 18 my kids can sleep mixed sex without me being there. Before then, no.

This.

Girls and women can not be used as a shield for boys and men who are vulnerable

Yes I agree. A good way to put it

There are wise women in this corner of MN @waterlego.

Where I work an NCS trip went out. A female to male students was allowed to sleep in the male dorm. They were sexually assaulted by another (male) learner in that dorm. As a staff team we had pushed and pushed for this student to have their own room but the safeguarding team insisted that they could sleep where they choose according to their identification.

Horrendous.

School staff would not share sleeping areas with children both because they know it's appalling safeguarding but also because they don't want to leave themselves open to accusations.
Would your son listen to you saying that he shouldn't share with girls in case one of them accuses him of something?

Would the leaders perhaps also be open to "X will ask to share with the girls but is in fact too reticent to say they are shy about revealing their body due to being trans and would in fact prefer a private room, please don't tell X I said that".

oohmamama

Did it become a police matter?

What do the insurance policies look like? I am a big believer in making things too hot to handle. So if NCS breach common ground (sense)/national guidelines etc, and an incident occurs, then presumably their public liability insurance would kick in. Always worth chasing the money man.

ie if insurance wont cover this then my guess is that the organisation will have to change their stance. (I am just so pleased my teenager decided NCS was not for them but I am looking for info to share with the school).

That's really sad @oohmamama, poor kid. They probably wanted to transition to get away from that type of objectification crap in the first place. I've heard enough of the TWAW drum banging, everyone ignores the fact that the vast majority of trans kids are f to m.

Interesting @Unwantedgift

I had a long interaction with NCS last year, and although my daughter did not end up attending the residential trip, I was assured by the that they would change their policies to reflect sex-based safeguarding and information collection.

Do feel free to DM me if you want a copy of the correspondence.

I’m more concerned at DS having to share with straight lads who seem to get a bit tribal around gay lads.

Is there supervision in the make dorms to prevent this, and if not, why not?

*male dorms

Thanks I’ve just pmd.
I think (although I don’t have a print out) the survey they gave to my son asked for gender and the one for parents asked for sex. So it’s possible they have changed the information collection. But the accommodation policy quite clearly is not sex based.

@drspouse

School staff would not share sleeping areas with children both because they know it's appalling safeguarding but also because they don't want to leave themselves open to accusations. Would your son listen to you saying that he shouldn't share with girls in case one of them accuses him of something?

Would the leaders perhaps also be open to "X will ask to share with the girls but is in fact too reticent to say they are shy about revealing their body due to being trans and would in fact prefer a private room, please don't tell X I said that".

I did ask him today and he said he had no preference, and wouldn’t insist on the girls dorm. I don’t know if he’d change his mind between now and August but that’s where he is now. But I really struggle with the principle of accommodation by self Id. The safety and privacy of the girls shouldn’t be dependent on a random boy making the right decision. Surely the point of safeguarding is to eliminate any possibility from the start and make adults responsible for that. NCS not called yet.

Yes

Sorry posted too soon.

@Helleofabore

I can’t go into much more detail but yes it went to the police.

Wow. That sounds dreadful. This is such a scandal… I’m thinking of contacting the press in some way

I contacted NCS with concern as was thinking of signing my daughter up and their response was:

”The accommodation itself will always be same-sex only and during the second phase, where possible, university style accommodation will be provided. This could be in the form of individual rooms, or rooms in flats with shared communal areas. Assistance will always be available on site by professional trained staff who will be happy to discuss any concerns with your young person.”

So there is obviously a disconnect between head office and providers.

You should I think contact NCS to alert them to the lack of safeguarding with your provider. Will PM you if that’s ok :)

Just tried to Pm you @Unwantedgift but MN servers are temperamental and I get an error 500 :(

Thanks just pmd you back.
Thats interesting they said that. Someone else said they were also reassured of the segregation by NCS. But if the providers are not doing that then it’s still NCSs accountability.

Turns out I’m now speaking to the local provider sg lead tomorrow (not NCS). In the meantime I asked for copy of the “guidelines “ and they’ve said “we look to the Equality Act 2010 for guidance”. I don’t know what part of EA they think makes this OK.

If I don’t get anywhere tomorrow I’ll need to contact NCS.

It very much looks like it’s a disconnect between NCS the organisation and the individual NCS local providers. My DDs did NCS three years ago and the provider was very good with regard to safeguarding, most definitely single sex accommodation, based in a University and they’d been doing it for years. It looks like a Debra Cook is the Responsible Manager for Safeguarding at NCS. You can get their full safeguarding policy on request. They need to know if their local providers have a different ‘safeguarding’ policy to them.