NCS will put my child into a "self-identified gendered accommodation"

[Unwantedgift]

Hi. First time posting here but I've got two children who have introduced me to the world of gender ideology. DD desisted, DS going through it right now. Wondering what I can say to the NCS safeguarding lead about the above.

Background is that DS is going this summer to a 2w course, the first of which is residential, and I know he's applied as "female gender" (self-diagnosed as GD and not on any medication). I raised concerns about the dorm arrangement in the NCS parent survey. The service provider called me and said:

"In line with government guidelines, we will allow the young people to self-ID and they will be put into whichever dorm they feel comfortable in. They'll be supervised at all times".

When I questioned whether they didn't have any safeguarding concerns about this, they said they'll get the NCS safeguarding lead to call me.

I'll ask for their risk assessment, and have studied the Equality Act... but has anyone else dealt with NCS on this issue before? How can they possibly think it's OK to let an entirely biological 16YO boy be in a girls dorm?

Thanks. I'm not worried about that either. The 15/16yo girls and their parents need to know that their NCS accommodation isn't single sex at all

OP, as a mom of teen girls, I just want to sincerely thank you for this. Truly.

Good luck to you.

The question is to ask why is it that there are male and femail dorms? Is it primarily so tha the female dorms can be decoated pink and have an atmosphere of being giggly and talking about hairstyles whereas the male ones can be macho and focused on meeting male stereotypes? Or is it perhaps to minimise the risk of teen pregnancy because we all know for a fact that if you get a bunch of 16 year olds together overnight there is an extremely high chance that there will be pregnancies sooner or later.

If it is the latter then the dorms really need to be split by sex, not gender.

I’ve been told my gay DS can’t share a room with his female friends doing the same one, yet their friend group is constantly doing sleepovers. I suppose they have to cover themselves in case of incidents. I’m more concerned at DS having to share with straight lads who seem to get a bit tribal around gay lads.

Why should pregnancy be singled out as a reason? There are plenty of other risks and reasons why the children should have single-sex sleeping arrangements and facilities.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

Robust safeguarding requires single sex accommodation. Pregnancy is a serious risk for teens, but so is assault, so are STIs, and so is the loss of basic privacy.

Gay teenage males are still young men, and they don’t belong in my daughters’ sleeping accommodation (at home in private, up to you).

@SockFluffInTheBath, whoever is organising your son’s trip is doing the right thing. It’s a real shame that your son may be subject to unpleasantness from other boys (and I hope he won’t be), but that is not a reason to abandon safeguarding principles.

Girls and women can not be used as a shield for boys and men who are vulnerable.

I wouldn’t count on full supervision. Dd went in 2019, they were left alone enough for there to be some severe bullying going on, which was handled badly, resulting in one girl making a suicide attempt.
I felt sorry for the idealistic young students who were in charge, they really didn’t have the experience to deal with a bunch of teenagers, and the whole thing made me question the safety of ncs without taking into account mixed sex sleeping arrangements.

@UlcerativePoliteness I agree the young people delivering the course DD was on seemed well meaning but ultimately completely unaware of the basics of safeguarding. Basically one of the boys was harassing some of the girls and assaulted one of them. The girls complained and nothing was done. He was allowed to stay on the course. I got involved and pointed out that they'd given the girls the message that if they're touched without consenting to it there's absolutely no point in reporting it. Their response showed that it hadn't even occured to them that making these girls stay in a group with their harasser/abuser was wrong. I'm so pleased DD's residential was cancelled because I'm not convinced she would have been safe.

[quote waterlego]@SockFluffInTheBath, whoever is organising your son’s trip is doing the right thing. It’s a real shame that your son may be subject to unpleasantness from other boys (and I hope he won’t be), but that is not a reason to abandon safeguarding principles.

Girls and women can not be used as a shield for boys and men who are vulnerable.[/quote]
No I understand and accept that. There will probably be girls they don’t know in with them and that’s a different proposition to friends having a sleepover. I meant it as weight behind sex not gender (or orientation) etc but I stopped short and expected some sort of psychic link up

Ah, I get you @SockFluffInTheBath. I’m not always good at joining the dots or reading between the lines so no worries!

When NCS came to our community garden the male leader spent the whole time trying to chase one of the girls and I had to make a safeguarding report. They did nothing about his behaviour.

I'd not go near them with a bargepole.

@waterlego I left those dots a long way apart

I’m starting to get cold feet about the trip after this thread though.

OP surely you tell your ds that it won't be appropriate for him to sleep with the young women and he needs to sleep elsewhere?

@Lavenderlid

OP surely you tell your ds that it won't be appropriate for him to sleep with the young women and he needs to sleep elsewhere?

This The whole idea of someone with a penis being in the dormitory intended for biological females is batshit. You should be telling your son that it is totally inappropriate. Just because this organisation seems to allow it doesn't make it right. As a teenager I went away several times on residential trips. Sharing with other girls was bad enough. Sharing with a male person would have frightened me to death.I would have been phoning mu mum to pick me up .

Yes I have explained to him why it's inappropriate, before I learnt about the self ID accommodation. But the discussion between the service provider and him about which accommodation he wants hasn't taken place, will probably not take place in front of me, and I don't know what he will say at at that time. I hope he won't choose to go to the F dorm. But even if he didn't, the fact that he's given a choice seems wrong to me.

OP. Does your child understand they cannot change sex?

Yes. Conversations about the whole gender issue with him are very very difficult and painful, as his belief is unshakeable and I disagree with everything he says. But he has certainly heard all the arguments from his parents.

You have my sympathies OP.

Thank you @Unwantedgift for being concerned about the girls on this course. And their parents.

It can't be easy.

I wish you strength & grace & cleverness to get through this.

Have you spoken to your child about having consideration for the girls and choosing accommodation that matches their sex rather than self identifying into the girls sleeping area?

How about simply stopping him from going? If my DSs took this stance I would not be allowing them to go.

I’ve been told my gay DS can’t share a room with his female friends doing the same one, yet their friend group is constantly doing sleepovers. I suppose they have to cover themselves in case of incidents. I’m more concerned at DS having to share with straight lads who seem to get a bit tribal around gay lads

It sounds like these policies are designed to trans the gay away

I used to work for a large provider of NCS. For safeguarding, accommodation is supposed to be single sex. If they identify as another gender and don't feel comfortable sharing with their same sex, they were (where possible) given their own accommodation i.e. single living accommodation within the site.

The problem is, small providers can be very rogue and do their own thing.

@ExMachinaDeus

Thank you *@Unwantedgift* for being concerned about the girls on this course. And their parents.

It can't be easy.

I wish you strength & grace & cleverness to get through this.

Thank you for your kind words. This incident is just the latest episode in a 2 year long nightmare, and I know it will not stop any time soon.