Brighton midwives told to say “front hole”

[tabbycatstripy]

Daily Mail reports that a care guide for transgender patients pregnant or giving birth suggests midwives should use ‘alternative’ anatomical terminology, so, instead of calling a vagina a vagina, they could use “genital opening” or “front hole”.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10727051/Midwives-urged-avoid-using-proper-words-anatomy-avoid-upsetting-trans-patients.html

Aside from the issues of linguistic misunderstanding that might arise when patients are allowed to choose what medical professionals name anatomical parts, isn’t “front hole” simply degrading language? Isn’t it pornified and dehumanising?

@Queenoftheashes this 100%!

This type of language is horrid, porn-like and makes no sense.

Wasn't it just a few years ago there were campaigns to educate women about their own sexual anatomy as so few could correctly name their own body parts?

Women being failed again and again.

I fail to see how anyone can really be offended by anatomical language. And I thought the proper words for things was a safeguarding tool as well as one important for consent in medical practice?

Urgh. No, you don’t have the right to walk into a hospital and start throwing around obscene language. How entitled.

Do you imagine that the person would actually walk through the front door and start hollering ‘FRONT HOLE’? (which is not a term I like but I don’t think is obscene)

I can assure you that is not accurate. It would be a conversation between the patient and the person in charge of their care.

But why are we allowing them to request it

This is an awful precedent. Patients being able to request specific care that makes them feel comfortable is not something I’d like to shut down.

For instance when I was r*ped, I went to the STI clinic and told the practitioner not to use the word. I didn’t want them to use that word, or the word assault. I still can’t bring myself to even type it. I just kept using the word sex and so did she. It’s not accurate or true but I really appreciated it. We both understood what I meant because we’d had the conversation.

That’s all this guidance is saying. That people are allowed to have that conversation.

This this this.

"Front hole" is useful for explaining anatomy to small children who don't know the word "urethra" yet.

It is not useful during birth. Hopefully anyone giving birth knows that the baby isn't going to come out of her anus (back hole). So if they need to distinguish between different "holes" surely that would be the opening in the cervix, or the entrance to the vagina, so "front" still isn't clear or helpful.
And babies aren't born by just popping out of a "hole." It's a long journey where they travel through the mother's body. You need to know when to wait if the cervix isn't dilated enough, when to bear down with your pelvic floor, when to try not to push too hard to minimise tearing of the perineum.

Surely sticking with "birth canal" is the best and easiest thing for people who feel "vagina" is too girly to apply to them? It is a good description of what the vagina actually is during birth and helps to picture it as the amazing 3D organ it is, not just a little penis holder. It is very well known, long established and clear in meaning. And not at all gendered!

That’s all this guidance is saying. That people are allowed to have that conversation.

What's the equivalent for male anatomy?

@JaninaDuszejko

When my DDs were really very small (preschool) I did use the word hole when explaining about childbirth. So the front hole is called the urethra and is where pee comes out, the middle hole is called the vagina and is where babies come out and the back hole is called the anus and is where poo comes out. I was pregnant at the time and there were lots of discussions about the baby. Hole was the easiest word to use that my preschoolers understood. We never spoke about 'front bottom' though, hate all the twee terms so when DD asked what that area was called I said vulva.

I meant to quote this in my previous post

@Beachsidesunset

'My furry front botty is a bit hurty, Doctor!'

I was just thinking about that!

Was it from The Fast Show?

@Datun

It's not about the transmen, clearly. There are hardly any. Where is the campaign? Who are they? How come this small number of unnamed women have the power to get the NHS to change policy? The NHS who deny a woman was raped due to this ideology, suddenly care so much about women they're re-naming body parts on request?

Nah.

And where is the reporting on re-naming male anatomy for all the transwomen. New names for prostates, testicles, penises, etc.

This is just more of the male led campaign to separate the word 'woman' from female biology, so it can be claimed by those who don't have it.

Then suddenly, the inconsistency of it only being done to women, the porny, dehumanising term, and the lack of knowledge about how female anatomy is positioned, makes perfect sense.

Yep. Every single word,

@Queenoftheashes

And no I don’t think it’s fair for midwives to have to try and remember each patient’s preferred made up word for their flange in somewhere like Brighton where every other pregnant 20 year old is non binary and you can guarantee one wants foof, one wants fanny and another wants mangina. Bloody ridiculous.

This made me laugh hard.

This is not the same thing though. And I am.so sorry for what happened fir you.

Whatever word you used you were still highly aware of your sex and what had happened.

What's being asked here is that midwives Indulge a lie about sex and bodies with people who they cannot even be sure are even aware of the reality around their body.

Medically inaccurate language does not benefit women..wonen are already an afterthought in.medicine. we cannot afford to allow this to happen. Or we will all.become birthing bodies with front holes.

I remember when it was considered progressive to teach children the correct anatomical names for bits of their bodies.

I’m not convinced people who struggle so much with words like “vagina” to the extent this kind of guidance has to be introduced are stable enough to be having children.

Wasn't it just a few years ago there were campaigns to educate women about their own sexual anatomy as so few could correctly name their own body parts?

By the charities and organisations now falling over themselves to be so inclusive that they're undoing that work.

@Ijustreallywantacat

It says SOME people and IF they prefer. Vagina will still be the go-to. You’re not going to hear it unless you specifically request it. It’s dramatics anyway. I know several trans men and I can’t imagine any of them actually wanting to use the term ‘front hole’. And if you really really want to request the term ‘wank pillows’ I would support your right to request language you are comfortable with.

It shouldn't be about using language you are comfortable with though. It's a medical setting. All the staff need to be on the same page, and using airy-fairy terminology for something that has a medical name could be dangerous. When a woman is in labour, there are split-second decisions to be made that, unsurprisingly, mean you need to talk about their vagina. You cannot be messing around with language, purely to prevent offending someone. You'll end up with a death on your hands.

Every inch snatched, it's always 'but it's just....' 'it's just....'

Childbirth is a total mess, women's experience is awful, women and babies die because of poor care, the NHS is on its knees, a woman has been raped in the name of this political ideology on a ward in a wholly predictable and foreseeable fuck up of safeguarding, but sure, let's spend a whole lot of time and energy and money facilitating males to separate biology from the word 'woman' and reshape it for males to better live their best lives.

'It's just...' women.

Is there a link anywhere for the 'My Language Preferences' document? I don't like getting this sort of info direct from the Daily Mail, as much as they are bringing sunlight to the general issue, as they have major form for making up bullshit (I wil always remember an article about Syrian refugees on a Scottish island and it was like playing bingo!)

But overall I agree that it is very important that clear language is used and 'preferences' don't really come into it.

If you can't handle the word 'vagina' being used when you are giving birth, then you probably shouldn't be having kids.

Whatever word you used you were still highly aware of your sex and what had happened

What's being asked here is that midwives Indulge a lie about sex and bodies with people who they cannot even be sure are even aware of the reality around their body.

This is where I’m going to end the conversation because I cannot get around the hypocrisy. It’s the same thing. It’s using factually incorrect language in a medical setting. I didn’t say, ‘he ejaculated in my vagina’. I said, ‘he finished up there’ and sort of vaguely pointed. The doctor was trained to work with me and navigate a difficult conversation using the words I was comfortable with. I’m afforded that right. I can’t take it away from others.

And I can assure you that trans men are very bloody aware of their body and sex. They’re not stupid. It’s the entire reason they are transitioning. There are very few of them that would wish to use the terms we’re talking about anyway.

‘You cannot be messing around with language, purely to prevent offending someone. You'll end up with a death on your hands.’

Imagine a midwife trying to explain to a busy consultant that the patient is bleeding heavily from his front hole, and they don’t know whether the father is going to need emergency support.

It’s not a hole.

But overall I agree that it is very important that clear language is used and 'preferences' don't really come into it

I sadly wonder what would happen in a medical negligence case. God forbid something ever happened, could a case fall apart on language? If, instead of assigning blame to hospital policies /staff and the patient who suffered a loss/serious injury granted compensation or apology etc . Could it in fact lead to a conclusion of, given the patients reluctance to acknowledge the reality of the situation and be in receipt of all the information in medically accurate terms, the hospital in fact did all they could within the patients agreed parameters and therfore there is no case/compensation or whatever.

I doubt it, Scully. The medical professional would have a duty to say this is an emergency and I’m doing what is clinically necessary. But it’s not at all clear that they all realise that.

As a midwife (not overly proud to admit that atm) I can’t count how many times I’ve had to explain to a woman what a urethra is and that she has one, usually when explaining prior to inserting a catheter. The lack of education women receive about their own bodies never fails to astound me. I don’t think policies promoting made up slang is going to help this.
That being said in practice I use whatever language my patient understands, I’ve never had anyone request anything absurd. If I’m carrying out a procedure (VE, catheter, cannula etc) I need to be absolutely sure the woman understands what is going to happen or it’s not informed consent and potentially assault. I don’t think during labour is the time to question or explore someone’s preferences. I would only use medical terminology between colleagues.

They're trying to make a labouring woman with dysphorphia feel more comfortable. Whatever. If it helps it helps.

At that point woyid it matters though. I mean I think its actually extremely unfair that this is put on medical staff. Friends and family play along because no one wants to be the " bad guy" and that lumbers the medical.staff not only with having to deal with giving and news they have ti deal with the fall out from acknowledging reality to patient triggered by it too.

Then someone in a right state has to somehow be able to get it together enough to make a decision.

This is why it's not kind I the slightest to indulge any of it. Sooner or later it will fall.apart. and in a medical emergency during child birth, its gonna end up being down to midwives to bail out parents, friends, family, drs etc who just didn't want to upset someone and tell them the truth from the beginning.

Its not theor job and staff shouldn't have to agree to do it.

@Lynnthesearesexnotgenderpeople

Is there a link anywhere for the 'My Language Preferences' document? I don't like getting this sort of info direct from the Daily Mail, as much as they are bringing sunlight to the general issue, as they have major form for making up bullshit (I wil always remember an article about Syrian refugees on a Scottish island and it was like playing bingo!)

This is what came up from Google. There may be a supporting document.

www.bsuh.nhs.uk/maternity/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2021/01/My-Language-Preferences.pdf

The Perinatal Care Guide has been available for some time and has a number of FWR threads.

www.bsuh.nhs.uk/maternity/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2021/01/MP005-Perinatal-Care-for-Trans-and-Non-Binary-People.pdf