Brighton midwives told to say “front hole”

[tabbycatstripy]

Daily Mail reports that a care guide for transgender patients pregnant or giving birth suggests midwives should use ‘alternative’ anatomical terminology, so, instead of calling a vagina a vagina, they could use “genital opening” or “front hole”.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10727051/Midwives-urged-avoid-using-proper-words-anatomy-avoid-upsetting-trans-patients.html

Aside from the issues of linguistic misunderstanding that might arise when patients are allowed to choose what medical professionals name anatomical parts, isn’t “front hole” simply degrading language? Isn’t it pornified and dehumanising?

It says SOME people and IF they prefer. Vagina will still be the go-to. You’re not going to hear it unless you specifically request it. It’s dramatics anyway. I know several trans men and I can’t imagine any of them actually wanting to use the term ‘front hole’. And if you really really want to request the term ‘wank pillows’ I would support your right to request language you are comfortable with.

Of all the things to focus on. Not staffing. Not increased bad outcomes fir black women. Not birth injuries. But worrying about indulging fantasies?

Yes, all of the doctors in the NHS downed tools for months in order to write this. There is no one employed in the NHS whose job it is to write policy. The NHS can only do one thing at any one time.

As much as these are stupid terms imo, Brighton is very pro trans, so its specifically talking about providing sensitive healthcare to transgender patients, so I think its a bit of a non story. If they were going to use those terms for all women then that would be grim. I think that in the event of childbirth it really should be focussed on the birthing female regardless of their feelings about their identity, and care of people in such intimate settings should be trauma informed

@tabbycatstripy

It is disgusting. It’s all about a utilitarian “meat suit” view of the body, with the body degraded and the “gendered essence” elevated. This, in spite of the fact that there is no gendered essence, and we need to do everything we can to avoid the degradation of the person, because so many people do treat women as if they are “front holes”.

Let’s not indulge it!

Exactly. I find expressions like ‘front hole’ both juvenile and obscene. As well as ignorant of course, given that the vagina is the middle ‘hole’.

Another poster made the link with pornography, which makes a lot of sense. Our own needs (eg to urinate) are irrelevant. So we are just two holes, both available for a penis to enter.

I know midwives through a family member. Along with most other clinical professionals they have been taking their cue for anatomical naming from their patients for many many years. If there is confusion they will make sure that they understand what the patient is saying and vice versa.

It is in a medical setting.
To request language you are comfortable with could be deadly.
Besides; midwives might be well affronted to refer to the lips of labia as «wank pillows». I wouldnt support any such idiocy.
Childbirth is very dangerous business and to mess around with fucking preferred language that could (WOULD) result in misunderstandings and delays is a recipe for disaster.
It is a matter of life and death to put it bluntly.

Fucking language and thought police are clearly lunatics when they prioritise «preferred language» over safe delivery and survival of both mother and child.

It makes me so angry.

I'm going to move.

Can anyone recommend a place that's as cool as Brighton that doesn't have this nonsense going on?

@Queenoftheashes If you’re a pregnant man I doubt someone referring to your vag is the most triggering thing to happen to it. How do they reconcile the baby coming out of it?

Please do not ever say this. It's a lie.

Yes, all of the doctors in the NHS downed tools for months in order to write this. There is no one employed in the NHS whose job it is to write policy. The NHS can only do one thing at any one time

Everyone has a bad nhs story. Sometimes multiple. Everyone. Every spare penny amd every spare minute by Everyone there should he spent trying to improve things . Improve outcomes. Patiente experiences. Not spent paying lobby groups with no medical, legal, safeguarding, child development backgrounds to alter paperwork amd policies so it males no medical, or anatomical sense.

Identity is no ones issue but patients. Its not relevant to anyone else. And should not require staff lie to or become less clear to, patients. Truth not lies. Not fantasy.

@MintyMoocow

I have three holes myself, my vagina is the middle one, pushing a baby out of the front one REALLY doesn’t bear thinking about.!

😂😂 that was my first thought, too.

Is the penis the 'piss stick' or 'piss pole'.... oh I think I have found my new MN name....

@tabbycatstripy

It’s not creepy at all. If my child told me someone touched her I would immediately investigate. I’m not embarrassed about her vagina or vulva. When we used “front bottom” it was developmentally appropriate and she could remember it. I don’t consider that even conceivably creepy.

Because it's confusing and misogynistic. Your bottom is your arse. If you had a son, would you call his genitals his front bottom? Nope - it's just girls' genitals that are so unmentionable that we have to call them something they are not.

A euphemism is one thing - I'm not a huge fan myself, but I understand why parents don't want a loud commentary on "Why is my vagina/penis itchy, Mummy?" in the check out queue. But a euphemism designed to gloss over the fact that girls have genitals is wrong IME, and sets girls up for a lifetime of embarrassment and difficulty describing sexual organs.

This reminds me of registering DCs for nursery and being asked if there are any special words they use for toileting!

‘And if you really really want to request the term ‘wank pillows’ I would support your right to request language you are comfortable with.’

You don’t think asking midwives to use obscene and non-medical terms to describe the human body is disgraceful behaviour? I do, and I support their right to refuse to use any such language. Patients aren’t god. There is a line.

‘Because it's confusing and misogynistic. Your bottom is your arse. If you had a son, would you call his genitals his front bottom? Nope - it's just girls' genitals that are so unmentionable that we have to call them something they are not.’

No, your bottom isn’t your arse. It’s the ‘bottom’ of the body. A 3 year old just learning language doesn’t need to be asked to specify ‘vagina’ or ‘vulva’ or ‘clitoris’ to be able to explain that someone touched them in their private areas. Anyway, these are individual parenting decisions. For me, I’m comfortable with the choices I’ve made to safeguard my daughters.

But no, I don’t want anyone teaching them to talk about “front holes”.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Yes, all of the doctors in the NHS downed tools for months in order to write this. There is no one employed in the NHS whose job it is to write policy. The NHS can only do one thing at any one time

Everyone has a bad nhs story. Sometimes multiple. Everyone. Every spare penny amd every spare minute by Everyone there should he spent trying to improve things . Improve outcomes. Patiente experiences. Not spent paying lobby groups with no medical, legal, safeguarding, child development backgrounds to alter paperwork amd policies so it males no medical, or anatomical sense.

Identity is no ones issue but patients. Its not relevant to anyone else. And should not require staff lie to or become less clear to, patients. Truth not lies. Not fantasy.

A) Providing inclusive and sensitive care to trans patients does improve outcomes. This guidance responds to patient experiences. B) You’re right that it’s not relevant to anybody else. That’s why it does not apply to everybody. The only people that will ever hear this language are people who request it. There will be very few people, but it will make a difference to them.

I support their right to refuse to use any such language.

Absolutely. The patient has the right to request it. The midwife has a right to abstain and seek somebody who will provide the correct care. Free speech is great.

And yes, I might do the same with a boy at a very young age unless I needed more specific language to teach toileting.

Anyway, like I say, these are parenting choices but none of them are “creepy”.

The men having babies are actually women who've had sex the way women have sex in order to get pregnant?
But they object to what exactly? They have a vagina they were happy to use to have sex? If they don't want to be women they should stop having sex like women?

Maybe they should use transistory belts. Like chastity belts but to stop them forgetting how they shouldn't have sex?

‘Absolutely. The patient has the right to request it. The midwife has a right to abstain and seek somebody who will provide the correct care. Free speech is great.’

Urgh. No, you don’t have the right to walk into a hospital and start throwing around obscene language. How entitled.

But why are we allowing them to request it?

If children are told the correct names for their body parts at a young age in order to help keep them safe why are we removing that safeguard for trans people? Because you assume they know already because someone else did the dirty work a few years ago?

The average reading age in the UK is something like 12. We cannot assume that patients already know anything or understand anything.

Would a dr assume a patient already knows what diabetes is so there's no point In explaining certain parts? Or would they fully explain the condition and the means to treat it?

'My furry front botty is a bit hurty, Doctor!'

The language described in the OP is just plain juvenile, meaningless and offensive.

Medical professionals should always use correct terminology and not be seen to be pandering to a ludicrous ideology.

Hasn’t the NHS got more pressing issues to deal with? A friend of mine locally is a midwife. She told me that on Good Friday there were two, yes TWO, community midwives on call overnight for a vast swathe of our county (very glad I didn’t know about this 19 years ago).

Pun absolutely intended: this health trust need to stop fannying around with discussing which poor snowflake may be “triggered” by terminology that is actually anatomically correct and focus on the current, shocking recruitment crisis in midwifery.

Joking aside beach isn't that what adults say to teens about sex. That if you cant talk about it ( using appropriate language and being able to discuss contraception) you shouldn't be doing it.

If an adult can't talk about their body with accurate terms are they even mentally capable to consent.

It's not about the transmen, clearly. There are hardly any. Where is the campaign? Who are they? How come this small number of unnamed women have the power to get the NHS to change policy? The NHS who deny a woman was raped due to this ideology, suddenly care so much about women they're re-naming body parts on request?

Nah.

And where is the reporting on re-naming male anatomy for all the transwomen. New names for prostates, testicles, penises, etc.

This is just more of the male led campaign to separate the word 'woman' from female biology, so it can be claimed by those who don't have it.

Then suddenly, the inconsistency of it only being done to women, the porny, dehumanising term, and the lack of knowledge about how female anatomy is positioned, makes perfect sense.