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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Boris or bust?

109 replies

tabbycatstripy · 13/04/2022 23:26

It’s not a decision I’ve come to lightly. I think Johnson is casual with the truth, lies when he believes it suits him, doesn’t particularly grace his office.

I’ve had to make my mind up whether I care more about him lying and eating too much cake than I care about children having healthy parts of their bodies removed, because of an excessively liberal worldview that doesn’t seem to be able to balance the rights of the child with the rights of adults to express themselves.

At the end of the day I - and I voted Labour for nearly thirty years - will vote for people who choose to do something about childhood transition. That’s my red line.

OP posts:
gardenhelpneeded · 13/04/2022 23:27

Depressing that it’s come to this but yes I agree.

LaLoba · 13/04/2022 23:40

I’m in the same boat. Fucking depressing that the lying clown is the least incompetent asshole I have to vote for. But at age 50 I have spent a lifetime trying to put others first, and I don’t see any of them giving a shiny shit about women.

sashagabadon · 14/04/2022 08:25

Personally I don’t care that Boris ate cake at all. I think it’s ridiculous so that doesn’t impact my thinking anyway. I am also more concerned with the damage labour will do to women and girls rights if they get any power to implement gender identity ideology that many in their party would like them to.

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 14/04/2022 08:29

I don’t care that he ate cake. I care that he broke his own laws. But I don’t care enough to vote for people who appear unable to think their way out of a wet paper bag.

OP posts:
Awkwardy · 14/04/2022 08:31

I think 'eating cake', or even 'people weren't able to hug their dying relatives' quite reflect the point of Partygate.

The rules that he broke, which he was responsible for drawing up, were in place to save lives

The police were arresting people for drinking coffee on park benches because their actions were deemed to be dangerous to public health

So when BJ flouts them, it's not just one rule for us and one for them. It shows how little he cares for human life. That, or he knows that his rules are bobbins, which is nearly as bad.

Awkwardy · 14/04/2022 08:31

"Don't think", obvs

MorrisZapp · 14/04/2022 08:36

Is this with regard to local elections? Or next GE?

A lot might change before the GE so there's no need to panic yet. I don't care about cake either but there'll be a whole new raft of issues by 2024 no doubt.

Moodycow78 · 14/04/2022 08:36

I feel the same, it's fucking depressing. I saw a post the other day from someone saying they'd vote labour despite their stance on women's and children's rights as there are more important things going on and they couldn't base a vote on this issue alone. I can't agree, this is my hill, I cannot be any part of taking my daughter's or any other females rights away.

PoshPyjamas · 14/04/2022 08:38

Yep

Live4weekend · 14/04/2022 08:40

You don't really describe Johnson in your OP.

It may be how you reconcile yourself with your decision, so fair enough.

For all that I think Labour are very very wrong with their stance on this, I do think they will get to the right place eventually.

I wouldn't trust Johnson as far as I can throw him. One dodgy backroom deal which benefits him, is all that it would take to change his mind.

JellySaurus · 14/04/2022 08:40

Feeling very similar, but not convinced I can vote for him (as opposed to the C party).

At this point, what's the difference between Boris & Co and P&O? Both parties knew they were breaking the law. Both thought they'd get away with it. At least P&O owned up to it when asked directly .

If BJ & Co can blithely and knowingly break the law, and get away with just a piddly little slap on the wrist, what's to stop them playing fast and loose with other laws when it pleases them?

The problem is, if BJ & Co go, who will replace them? Would the new leadership continue the growing recognition of material reality ? Would they be any better?

Kendodd · 14/04/2022 08:44

You do realise that this whole trans ideology has flourished hugely under the Tories don't you? And that self ID was a Tory idea? And that Johnson was the one who reduced the fee for a GRC to £5?

Alcoh · 14/04/2022 08:44

It’s a sad time OP but I am with you. I mean who thought they were following the ‘rules’ anyway? I had zero doubt they weren’t. And the rules were utterly ridiculous, far too damaging and I believe put in place due to the public opinion being shit if they HADN’T put them in place. Of course they didn’t believe in the rules which is why they broke them. If the public hadn’t been screaming for lockdowns and a police state then it wouldn’t have happened anyway. Boris always wanted a more liberal way of dealing with it and honestly given the damage those damn rules have caused I believe he was right. So I understand why they broke them basically.

Now when it comes to women and girls - I have to vote for the party who will protect them. And at the moment Boris is the only leader who has spoken any sense. I think he is starting to get it.

Alcoh · 14/04/2022 08:47

@Kendodd that was then. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge since Teresa May and self id. A lot.

lakeswimmer · 14/04/2022 08:55

@Kendodd

You do realise that this whole trans ideology has flourished hugely under the Tories don't you? And that self ID was a Tory idea? And that Johnson was the one who reduced the fee for a GRC to £5?
I don't think that's the full picture as self-ID is happening around the world so it's a global movement. I think it's only the determination of FWR groups and possibly the Tory government which has stopped it getting further. Look at what's happening in Scotland under the SNP.
MarshaBradyo · 14/04/2022 08:57

I think partygate is damaging because it won’t go away but it’s not something that has impacted my decisions

I’ll weigh up other policies when deciding but self ID and erosion of sex based rights is a line for me.

LolaLouLou · 14/04/2022 09:04

I thought about this, this morning with the government's extremely expensive horrific new immigration plans.

It is impossible, I feel that if women can not be defined by their sex, they will lose their rights. But Johnson lies and lies. His government don't care about women, they care about themselves, their buddies and saving their own skins.

I think should any local politicians knocks on my door, I will tell them exactly why I don't want to vote for them.

Original poster
tabbycatstripy · 14/04/2022 09:05

‘You do realise that this whole trans ideology has flourished hugely under the Tories don't you? And that self ID was a Tory idea? And that Johnson was the one who reduced the fee for a GRC to £5?’

Yes, but it hasn’t flourished under Johnson, and its momentum has been reversed.

I don’t mind the reduction in the fee, it’s irrelevant to me.

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 14/04/2022 09:06

@Alcoh

It’s a sad time OP but I am with you. I mean who thought they were following the ‘rules’ anyway? I had zero doubt they weren’t. And the rules were utterly ridiculous, far too damaging and I believe put in place due to the public opinion being shit if they HADN’T put them in place. Of course they didn’t believe in the rules which is why they broke them. If the public hadn’t been screaming for lockdowns and a police state then it wouldn’t have happened anyway. Boris always wanted a more liberal way of dealing with it and honestly given the damage those damn rules have caused I believe he was right. So I understand why they broke them basically.

Now when it comes to women and girls - I have to vote for the party who will protect them. And at the moment Boris is the only leader who has spoken any sense. I think he is starting to get it.

Totally agree with this. A competent professional health advisor in Scotland had to step down at the start of the pandemic because she walked across a golf course.

It's hard to remember just how mental those early days were.

Ablababla · 14/04/2022 09:09

Nope won’t vote for him. He’s an immoral liar. It’s not ‘just cake’ ffs. It’s someone thinking they are above the laws that they created and ignoring the sacrifices of ordinary people.

I believe that labour stance on woman it misguided and poorly thought through but I think they believe they are doing the correct thing. Not on the make like the Tories. Not that I plan to vote for them either.

If I vote for someone I know to be an immoral liar what does that make me?

Floisme · 14/04/2022 09:11

For all that I think Labour are very very wrong with their stance on this, I do think they will get to the right place eventually.
I think that's possible, but only if they don't get into power in the meantime.

I don't intend voting Tory (and I'm hoping there will be a half sensible independent candidate to save me from spoiling my vote) but I'm not going to criticise anyone who does. I think everyone has to make the best decision they can.

Narcoanonymoose · 14/04/2022 09:12

As much as I disagree with self ID I can't vote for this bunch of liars. Doubt it will get through parliament even if labour do win a GE. Labour's tune is already slowly changing. I work with mainly women and we discussed this yesterday. All of them are disgusted with the corruption and hypocrisy and won't be voting conservative. Why believe them on this if they lie about everything else ?

Kendodd · 14/04/2022 09:17

I’ll weigh up other policies when deciding but self ID and erosion of sex based rights is a line for me.
150,000 people dead due to Tory austerity (pre covid) was my red line. I wonder how many will be killed by Tory poverty this time? I haven't voted Labour since the Iraq war, the poverty the Tories have caused was my Iraq war moment with them.

sashagabadon · 14/04/2022 09:18

@Kendodd

You do realise that this whole trans ideology has flourished hugely under the Tories don't you? And that self ID was a Tory idea? And that Johnson was the one who reduced the fee for a GRC to £5?
This is true but I put that down to ignorance and wanting to be seen to be doing the right thing ( misguidedly) Only really Mumsnet was sounding the alarm back in 2016 and journalists like Janice Turner. They have now put the brakes on hard as they can see the issues and back peddling at lightening speed. Labour too can see the issues but either don’t care or think they are unimportant. That’s the difference to me. And if labour can be taken in by gender identity ideology and embrace it despite the obvious harm to women and girls then I am not sure I think they are capable of deep thinking and looking at an issue in the round. And that worries me. They embraced an ideology that is obviously (to me) harmful. They are on the “wrong side of history” on this
Nellodee · 14/04/2022 09:22

I cannot vote Conservative. I'm in a former red wall constituency so my vote very much matters. Women's rights are under threat, but climate change is an existential threat and we cannot afford four more years of doing practically nothing.