Boris or bust?

[tabbycatstripy]

It’s not a decision I’ve come to lightly. I think Johnson is casual with the truth, lies when he believes it suits him, doesn’t particularly grace his office.

I’ve had to make my mind up whether I care more about him lying and eating too much cake than I care about children having healthy parts of their bodies removed, because of an excessively liberal worldview that doesn’t seem to be able to balance the rights of the child with the rights of adults to express themselves.

At the end of the day I - and I voted Labour for nearly thirty years - will vote for people who choose to do something about childhood transition. That’s my red line.

The real medical scandal in adolescent health care is the hideous underfunding of the CAMHS service. This is costing lives. There is a ridiculous waiting list for crisis support. It needs more funding and more trained professionals.
That is what Would swing my vote.

Well if he really cared he could have done something about it, couldn’t he. He’s done fuck all to make sure that males aren’t in Women’s prisons. He’s just sat back and very recently said a couple of things to placate people because he doesn’t really give a shit about the people this affects (DV victims, prisoners etc).

Meanwhile, his government is proposing sending vulnerable traumatised people crossing the channel to Rwanda. Including many women. And lots will continue to rely on food banks and have to weigh up whether to eat dinner or heat the house for their children.

Donald Trump was also anti self-ID. But then boasted about grabbing women by the pussy 🤷‍♀️

I'll not be voting conservative - I never will. BUT my vote no longer goes to the labour party or lib dems. I live in a closely contested seat with labour close to winning last time. But they're not getting my vote back until they start behaving like a responsible party rather than spouting thought terminating cliches like TWAW.
They're already on a very slight reverse ferret while desperately trying to pretend they're not. They're going to have to grow the fuck up and acknowledge the mess this has created and allow and engage in the difficult discussions to be had. Until they do that they can whistle for my vote back.

[quote GrammarTeacher]@LK1972 no, all politicians do NOT lie in parliament. It is against their standards. For decades that resulted in an immediate resignation (cf. Profumo). I have no trouble with trans women are women. I know most of you disagree. I avoid discussion on here generally now. However, anyone thinking voting for Conservatives is a good idea for human rights is in for a rude awakening.
I'm bisexual and have already observed that the so-called LGB Alliance is posting bi-phobia on line. This will not stop with trans people (not that this is why I defend trans people).
Regardless, Johnson is either inept, idiotic or both. This makes him an awful choice of leader. Regardless of his standpoint on trans rights. His history shows his he doesn't really do standpoints anyway.[/quote]
Interesting points, I guess the definition of 'lie' is the disagreement between us, which is the problem with this ideology.

You say TWAW is not a lie, but I think it is, and a highly pernicious one. Once you've agreed TWAW it's impossible to debate this issues, because the premise of discussion is a lie, imo.

I would be highly interested to any links of LGBA biphobia, as an also bisexual, if you have them handy.

I believe Boris, is inept rather than idiotic, but is less disruptive to the actual machinery of government than someone currently making an fool of himself due to inability to answer a simple question.

Which leads me to the question of who is he afraid of? Is it political, financial, what is it?

If I was in danger of forgetting how awful the Tories are, the news that they are planning to send asylum seekers to Rwanda has reminded me.

I can't vote Conservative. But the self-ID policies of the other parties make it very hard to vote for anyone else either.

@GrammarTeacher

The real medical scandal in adolescent health care is the hideous underfunding of the CAMHS service. This is costing lives. There is a ridiculous waiting list for crisis support. It needs more funding and more trained professionals. That is what Would swing my vote.

That I agree with, and have experienced, but NHS overall is in dire straits due to COVID, so don't think it's isolated.

@RoyalCorgi

If I was in danger of forgetting how awful the Tories are, the news that they are planning to send asylum seekers to Rwanda has reminded me.

I can't vote Conservative. But the self-ID policies of the other parties make it very hard to vote for anyone else either.

What's the alternative? Currently the Channel is becoming a graveyard, or shall we just open borders?

Grammar: So - to be clear - childhood transition works for you as a policy? Do you vote Labour?

Until the other parties can get out of the grips of Trans activists and Stonewall, it’s Boris all the way for me. You’ve got to choose what is the most important issue and womens rights are the hill I want to die on.

@LK1972 - it's on Twitter. I'm busy or would get screen shots. One account that collates them is GCBi-Phobia. It does include some horrible things from America which I am still hoping to not hear/see in this country. But a certain GC British academic has also posted bi-phobic comments on Twitter so who knows.
Anyway, I don't believe TWAW is a lie but thanks for your courteous discussion. I don't think the pronouns we use are a big deal (although I do find pronouns fascinating - but that's a Shakespeare geek thing).

@tabbycatstripy - define childhood?
But whilst it is something to be done slowly and with care no, I have no theoretical objection.
But then I know plenty of trans men and trans women.

What's the alternative? Currently the Channel is becoming a graveyard, or shall we just open borders

Wtf? You think there’s no option but sending them to Rwanda? While people are happy to take in the ‘right’ refugees, ie white and Christian, you think that we should dump the rest on another continent in a country with a very dubious human rights record? It’s astonishing how little compassion people have. Oh and we take a minuscule number of refugees compared to other countries so no we’re not at breaking point and we could treat them much more humanely.

‘@tabbycatstripy - define childhood?
But whilst it is something to be done slowly and with care no, I have no theoretical objection. But then I know plenty of trans men and trans women.’

What sort of teacher doesn’t know what a child is?

But anyway, as you have no objection, that’s where the line is drawn between us, because I do.

I'm bisexual and have already observed that the so-called LGB Alliance is posting bi-phobia on line.

What have they said that's bi-phobic? Can you link it?

The cake business is nonsense, especially as people forget that the public and media lobbied the (unwilling) government to bring in tougher restrictions, so it's not just a case that they imposed these rules onto the public, the public demanded the rules.

But the main thing the political parties have got to understand that if they want votes then ditch the "we can't define a woman" mantra. If Labour realise that that is losing them votes then they'll be forced to change.

But people have got to realise that it doesn't matter about the party in charge, the civil servants (who stay regardless of political party and actual parties!) are in the pocket of Stonewall and this is where a lot of the problems are coming from.

@GCAndProud

What's the alternative? Currently the Channel is becoming a graveyard, or shall we just open borders

Wtf? You think there’s no option but sending them to Rwanda? While people are happy to take in the ‘right’ refugees, ie white and Christian, you think that we should dump the rest on another continent in a country with a very dubious human rights record? It’s astonishing how little compassion people have. Oh and we take a minuscule number of refugees compared to other countries so no we’re not at breaking point and we could treat them much more humanely.

I have the compassion, to all those on the other side of the Channel, driven to take a deadly journey. I do not want any more deaths, how is that not compassion?

It is this new and specific deadly migrant route that needs to be dealt with. How would you, personally and specifically, do it?

@BootsAndRoots

The cake business is nonsense, especially as people forget that the public and media lobbied the (unwilling) government to bring in tougher restrictions, so it's not just a case that they imposed these rules onto the public, the public demanded the rules.

But the main thing the political parties have got to understand that if they want votes then ditch the "we can't define a woman" mantra. If Labour realise that that is losing them votes then they'll be forced to change.

But people have got to realise that it doesn't matter about the party in charge, the civil servants (who stay regardless of political party and actual parties!) are in the pocket of Stonewall and this is where a lot of the problems are coming from.

Happily, Ministers appear to be able to influence their department's involvement with Stonewall - see all the government departments leaving Stonewall over the last year.

I also anticipate acceleration of this trend following Allison Bailey case later this month, unless I'm over-optimistic about their likely performance.

Why is it always women who have to be defined? Why can't some of these politicians be asked how they define a man?

Women are still very often the second sex. Why also are those noisy transwomen only interested in activities where male puberty gives them an advantage?

@Peregrina

Why is it always women who have to be defined? Why can't some of these politicians be asked how they define a man?

Maybe because men haven’t a reason to worry about trans men in their spaces or sports

Maybe because men haven’t a reason to worry about trans men in their spaces or sports

Which to my mind makes it clear that transwomen aren't women and never will be. (Shock horror, I am a nasty transphobe.)

@Kendodd

You do realise that this whole trans ideology has flourished hugely under the Tories don't you? And that self ID was a Tory idea? And that Johnson was the one who reduced the fee for a GRC to £5?

This ^

I'm afraid I just think the Tories are better at avoiding the questions. They are the ones in whose watch the criminal courts and prison systems have converted to gender rather than sex.

Completely at a loss on who you vote for

@Dinplatime for Chrissakes. Just - enough. Even if that were true, which it isn't, how come Rwandan women get to deal with it? That's ok is it?