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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Is MH just an echo chamber on FWR?

275 replies

NarcissasMumintheDoghouse · 08/04/2022 11:58

Article in the New Statesman shows women's rights not a voter priority (and elsewhere in the publication they predict Labour would get more votes that the Tories).
sotn.newstatesman.com/2022/03/sotn-what-issues-matter-most-to-voters/

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 08/04/2022 13:01

Political parties have women's sections to address issues that women appreciate more than do men.

OP you do realise that some parties have had women's officers' that were transitioned males? And there are quite a few organisations with transitioned males in the women's officer roles, including transitioned males who have only transitioned very recently.

As this has been allowed to happen, why would anyone have confidence that women's rights will be female centred at all around the realities of women's lives and all aspects of women's lives.

Calennig · 08/04/2022 13:01

It's not clear from the link how people were asked - tick box of suggestions or given a list and asked to rank them - was it an open choice or were the topic pre selected by pollsters.

If it was a completely open choice were you would expect it to appear may well depend on who was being polled and how open they felt they could be.

It's not the only issue for me but it does seem to be part of a wider pattern of not listening.

334bu · 08/04/2022 13:03

What is MH please???

AlisonDonut · 08/04/2022 13:03

Political parties have women's sections to address issues that women appreciate more than do men. Because they're the sex class at the coal face.

If men start taking over the women's sections, then we're back where we're started before the women's sections were established.

You might want to sit down and read up on what happened in the Labour Party in 2017-8-19 let alone 2020-2022!

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 08/04/2022 13:09

You could equally argue that, based on your link, LGBTQI+ rights aren't important to voters either, so why are political parties tying themselves in knots to get those votes?

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 08/04/2022 13:16

The issue isn’t even whether voters think womens rights matter, it’s whether they think a politician who can’t define what a woman is either a liar or an idiot.

picklemewalnuts · 08/04/2022 13:18

If you totally disenfranchise women, allow men to receive awards, medals, jobs set aside specifically to redress the disadvantages of women in society, imprison vulnerable women with sex offending men, silence women who raise a concern, support the medicalise of teen confusion and remove safeguarding at every level...

if you do that, if you are that regressive, why would I trust you to do anything good?

brainbowbroad · 08/04/2022 13:22

They probably didn't list women's rights as one of the options

Is ridiculous that they didn't put what is obviously the most pressing issue in the UK right now in the survey.

Has the New Statesmen been captured?

Aspiringmatriarch · 08/04/2022 13:27

If men start taking over the women's sections, then we're back where we're started before the women's sections were established.

Yes, I take your point there.

You might want to sit down and read up on what happened in the Labour Party in 2017-8-19 let alone 2020-2022!

What did happen?

Pixiedust1234 · 08/04/2022 13:32

@Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky

The issue isn’t even whether voters think womens rights matter, it’s whether they think a politician who can’t define what a woman is either a liar or an idiot.
This. Says it all really.
PrawnofthePatriarchy · 08/04/2022 13:35

Are we ever going to find out what MH stands for?

bellinisurge · 08/04/2022 13:41

Presume it means MN.

Nancydrawn · 08/04/2022 13:42

MH is an obvious typo for MN.

bellinisurge · 08/04/2022 13:45

Given the handmaidens you regularly find on MN , I'm guessing the writer of that article doesn't look very closely.

Also, start making this about your Mum/Sister/Wife/Girlfriend/Daughter being at risk of rape in hospital and then disbelieved because of gender woowoo that will get attention

HotCrossMocha · 08/04/2022 13:50

I just don't think many women think that this affects their lives hugely, and that other things are more important. It doesn't mean it isn't important, but other things are seen to take priority. And although I do understand why being able to define women properly is important, it is not a single-issue vote for me. No, I don't expect a party who can't define women to particularly care about making my life better through their policies, but I don't think I expect that of a party that does define women, either. I don't think most women believe that it's a big enough problem - many don't know any transwomen, and many women's day to day lives are not affected by transwomen in the toilets, changing rooms, refuges etc., so it seems like a very rare situation, whereas not being able to feed children is a very immediate and very obviously day-to-day issue that women face. So I'm not surprised that they focus their attention on that.

OldCrone · 08/04/2022 13:51

@Aspiringmatriarch

If men start taking over the women's sections, then we're back where we're started before the women's sections were established.

Yes, I take your point there.

You might want to sit down and read up on what happened in the Labour Party in 2017-8-19 let alone 2020-2022!

What did happen?

Labour said that all-women shortlists could include self-identified 'transwomen'.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43962349

There was also 'Lily' Madigan who became a women's officer in the Labour party (despite being male).

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1168050960247283712.html

Nancydrawn · 08/04/2022 13:51

As for how the poll works, I believe it's an open-ended question. It's asked every month, and has been for decades. You can respond however you'd like.

First question is what is the most important issue, second is what's the other most important issue. Then the issues are tabulated by category (e.g. "invasion of Ukraine" and "Putin" would be grouped together as Foreign Affairs).

If GC issues count under "lifestyle," then it's 1% of respondents. Otherwise, it's either in the "other" category or not mentioned.

www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2022-03/Mar22_Issues%20Index_topline_PUBLIC.pdf

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 08/04/2022 13:57

@ButlerianJihad

It's not a priority because people have no idea. That's changing because once they realise what's been going on, people are horrified and it becomes a priority.

Keeping people in the dark so they can't form an informed opinion on this has been their strategy from the start.

Exactly. Most people don’t know the facts, even if they’ve heard of the issue. Once they know, they first can’t believe it and then think it’s wrong.
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 08/04/2022 14:00

@Nancydrawn

MH is an obvious typo for MN.
Not obvious!
donquixotedelamancha · 08/04/2022 14:03

It's never going to be most people's top priority when the economy is a mess, energy prices are through the roof, education and the NHS are at breaking point and there is war in Europe.

I do, however, think it's a weathervane issue. How can you trust someone to solve the energy crisis if they struggle to explain what a woman is?

Imnobody4 · 08/04/2022 14:04

New Statesman have just launched a new data hub. Not sure if it's subscription only. As with all polling it depends on the questions asked and the context.

sotn.newstatesman.com/?utm_source=pardot&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=SOTN_Promo_April2022_engagement

We have launched State of the Nation,home to the latest data on what Britain is thinking. Brought to you by Ben Walker, co-founder of Britain Elects, and our award-winning data journalism team, State of the Nation uncovers the trends behind the headlines.

					Why did the UK vote to leave the EU when so many citizens couldn’t name a single Brexit-backing friend? Who would win if an election was held today? Where is unemployment highest in the UK? How much of a crisis – if at all – is the NHS in? And how popular is Boris Johnson really?
					
					These are some questions State of the Nation answers with election, sentiment and data analysis.
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 08/04/2022 14:05

@picklemewalnuts

If you totally disenfranchise women, allow men to receive awards, medals, jobs set aside specifically to redress the disadvantages of women in society, imprison vulnerable women with sex offending men, silence women who raise a concern, support the medicalise of teen confusion and remove safeguarding at every level...

if you do that, if you are that regressive, why would I trust you to do anything good?

Well, yes. These are not trivial facts. The politicians allowing and enabling these wrongs know what they are doing. I have changed my view of my own LabourMP, who I used to like, and thought he was doing his best. But now that no longer outweighs his willingness to throw women under the bus.
Nancydrawn · 08/04/2022 14:09

@Imnobody4

New Statesman have just launched a new data hub. Not sure if it's subscription only. As with all polling it depends on the questions asked and the context.

sotn.newstatesman.com/?utm_source=pardot&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=SOTN_Promo_April2022_engagement

We have launched State of the Nation,home to the latest data on what Britain is thinking. Brought to you by Ben Walker, co-founder of Britain Elects, and our award-winning data journalism team, State of the Nation uncovers the trends behind the headlines.

					Why did the UK vote to leave the EU when so many citizens couldn’t name a single Brexit-backing friend? Who would win if an election was held today? Where is unemployment highest in the UK? How much of a crisis – if at all – is the NHS in? And how popular is Boris Johnson really?
					
					These are some questions State of the Nation answers with election, sentiment and data analysis.</div></div>

Sure, but they were reporting on the same IPSOS Issues poll which has been going back decades, which has the same question: “What do you see as the main/other important issues facing Britain today?”

You can read the pdf I posted above. This isn't a biased poll. In fact, it's very open-ended. It's just not most people's top priorities.

Which is why, I assume, that the OP was asking if Mumsnet was an echo chamber.

mudgetastic · 08/04/2022 14:22

I don't think the definition of echo chamber means a place where people with a common interest chat or make plans to get their voices heard

I think that at any point in time only an small number of factors will be relevant to the majority of the population, FWR is more a special interest group in that respect

A SIG can legitimately think it's issues are important ans should be heard more

I think you become an echo chamber if you exclude other viewpoints or pretend they don't exist or pretend that the whole world agrees with you

crosshatching · 08/04/2022 14:27

I follow various lefty Twitter accounts. Only one of them has raised that this is an issue that Labour need to be more concise in their communication and aware that this could be a vote loser. Every time he posts a comment like that his replies are all from men saying it's a non-issue or that the Tories are confecting this as part of a broader culture war. There's an occasional comment from women agreeing with him.

Men aren't looking at the reality of women's lives and Labour are studiously not encouraging them to.