Nancy writes for The Guardian

[Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/07/cancelling-lgbt-conference-government-conversion-practices-trans-people

It seems stonewall are responsible for the “conversation therapy = ECT” doing the rounds atm. I did wonder how all of a sudden that started being quoted everywhere. I assume sone kind of briefing had gone out

I think Nancy is a bit upset her tantrum didn’t work.

Trans people were being “treated” with electroshock therapy on the NHS well into the 1970s.

So 50 years ago. Not now.

It’s rather extraordinary as the conference was cancelled as Stonewall pulled out. So the cancellation is on them. No doubt they did it to force the Government’s hand and it backfired on them but then they should have a better strategist.

Despite the fact that declaring yourself trans is possible at any time of life, it appears children are Nancy’s focus:

‘Today, anti-trans groups talk publicly about having a goal of “100% desistence”; or targeting trans children and young people with conversion practices until no more trans people exist.’

Even if every single child with gender-related distress did (without the aid of any abusive practice such as electric shock therapy - which would be illegal without any ban on trans conversion therapy) desist, it doesn’t follow that there would be no trans people.

There would still be plenty of people getting to adulthood or middle age and determining that their happiest lives involve presenting as the opposite sex.

NK thinks the existence of trans people depends on the existence of children on puberty blockers and cross sex hormones, and is therefore motivated to increase the numbers of that class of people. She’s dangerous.

ECT has to be signed off by health care professionals. This idea that there are hcps lining up to torture trans people with ECT is scaremongering bollocks.

I wondered why Kay Burley was banging on about ECT a couple of days ago when interviewing sajid javid and she asked a question about conversion therapy.

A briefing must have gone out from stonewall. But is there any evidence at all that ECT is still used for this purpose?

To be fair, I had no idea ECT was still used on psychiatric patients (many without their consent) and find that disturbing and baffling.

Obviously NK doesn’t mean people are actually using this technique on children. She just wants to muddy the waters and draw a convoluted line between ECT and not immediately affirming your ‘trans child’ over eggs in the morning.

A briefing must have gone out from stonewall. But is there any evidence at all that ECT is still used for this purpose?

If there was it would be headline news.

In my view the primary therapeutic goal for gender questioning young people should ALWAYS be helping them to be comfortable with the body and brain they have. Transition should only be considered if therapy fails to achieve this primary aim. Lifelong medication with profound side effects and removal of healthy body parts should not be seen as a good outcome, in all but the most extreme cases of dysphoria that cannot be resolved through other means.

Of course there isn’t evidence people are shocking adolescents to change their ‘gender identities’. Imagine the story!

What NK means is that people tell their teenagers they’re not male, and no, they can’t have sex-change drugs.

Trans people were being “treated” with electroshock therapy on the NHS well into the 1970s

Back when trans meant homosexual transexual and it was homophobia.

'An effective, inclusive ban...'
'It is supported by progressive, inclusive faith leaders'
'...a commitment for a trans-inclusive ban..'

I wish Nancy would get a thesaurus!

As for the letter signed by Rowan Williams among others, I didn't realize that the Church had been Stonewalled. But I suppose one belief system supporting another isn't so surprising, seeing as they both rely on faith over fact.

Linking the TQ+ to the LGB was a master stroke in terms of gaining support for the cause, but I think (I hope) that people will start to see that they should not go together. This article sounds a bit desperate to me (but I accept that others who are knew to the whole situation might not read it the same way)

I have a close relative who suffers hugely with debilitating clinical depression, they find electric shock therapy to be one of the most effective therapies for them. They are a consenting adult and even then they have to beg to be referred. Referencing the same treatment in the context of gender questioning children is scaremongering - where is the evidence that this is even offered? There will be none I am sure of it.

Stonewall are throwing their massive weight and finances behind this narrative and you have to wonder, who benefits when children are automatically affirmed and set on a medical pathway for life, with all that entails. Not children that’s for sure. Pharmaceutical industry yes. Stonewall and the rest of the “EDI” industry yes. Creepy predatory men yes.

@tabbycatstripy

To be fair, I had no idea ECT was still used on psychiatric patients (many without their consent) and find that disturbing and baffling.

Obviously NK doesn’t mean people are actually using this technique on children. She just wants to muddy the waters and draw a convoluted line between ECT and not immediately affirming your ‘trans child’ over eggs in the morning.

The fact that ECT is still used on psychiatric patients isn't a problem. It's a drastic but potentially life saving treatment for extremely ill people who are at serious risk of death. We don't understand why it works, but it does sometimes work when all else has failed.

The only “shock” therapy going on is when sensible adults tell their children that they can’t actually ever change sex. For children in stonewalled schools that is in indeed a shock to hear.

‘ The fact that ECT is still used on psychiatric patients isn't a problem. It's a drastic but potentially life saving treatment for extremely ill people who are at serious risk of death. We don't understand why it works, but it does sometimes work when all else has failed.’

I’d be interested to see the results and understand how, but it’s not the topic here. The point is that NK knows it sounds regressive and even cruel to a lot of people, so she says it even though it has no relevance.

So they could be saying great news about the gay conversion but instead it is just trans, trans, trans. I don't care if conversion in other countries includes the t, it doesn't matter if other countries support that.
Stonewall really have lost the plot.

So they could be saying great news about the gay conversion

Well, they could, but it's all made up. There is no actual "conversion therapy" happening of any type in 2022, so there's no point in a "partial victory".

The only real purpose of this bill is to try to force affirmation of trans identies in normal therapy. Digging into the reason for trans identification in conventional treatment is the thing that is actually happening, and so that's the only thing that could possibly be hit by the bill. Not the imaginary "conversion therapy".

It's like having an "anti-unicorn" bill. The only thing that could possibly be hit by it are horses mis-identified as hornless unicorns...

I loved one particularly brainless Twitter response to stuff about not going ahead with the conversion therapy ban. "Oh my god, I can't believe this is still happening in 2022! Of course it should be banned."

Presumably these same braniacs would respond to a proposed anti-unicorn bill being canned with "Oh my god, I can't believe there are unicorns wandering around! They should be stopped!".

I may be wrong but I don't think electric shocks given historically as adversion therapy is the same thing as ECT.

The first is based on behavioural science. A reward or a punishment (in this case an electric shock) is used in an attempt to program an individual into behaving in a desired way

The second is a much used treatment for psychiatric conditions that passes an electric through the brain to trigger a seizure.

The problem we have is that anything other than full enthusiastic affirmation is classed as conversion therapy by stonewall etc al just as say a person cannot change their sex is transphobic. We need to get stonewall et al to be honest about what they claim is conversion therapy and transphobia so the general public will see how much of this is complete bs

The Government probably knew Stonewall's boycott was coming and made the calculation that they do not need them any more.

"The injury caused by conversion therapy begins with the notion that an individual is sick, diseased and abnormal due to their sexual orientation or gender identity and must therefore be treated.”

FFS. We are the ones saying kids don't need to be medicalised and sterilised because of their gender identity. Either there is nothing wrong with them, or they should be rushed through the Tavistock and given drugs and surgery before they can say "puberty". You can't have it both ways, Nancy. Or indeed you can say their obvious unhappiness and discomfort means something is wrong, but not their sexually or gender identity, and let's give them appropriate support for that.

Theonlyreal purpose of this bill is to try to force affirmation of trans identies

This, and stonewalls approach its straight out of the Dentons handbook and the advice to get something unpopular or controversial into law, by linking it to something popular and uncontroversial. Using LGB as a veil of protection

The sub-header on this:

“Instead of answering demands from organisations like mine...”

DEMANDS.

Nuff said.

Current ECT is a treatment of last resort for some of the most clinically depressed people. It is a treatment of choice, no professional enthusiastically suggests it, or administers it. It's done under general anaesthetic and is a life saving treatment for many - my uncle for one! He is gay. He has had ECT 2 or 3 times for his mania, it doesn't prevent him from being gay!

Fuck off Nancy!