Radio 4

[Ridcully82]

Nicky de Costa just on: amazing calling out of dodgy stats. The next speaker...not so much.

Ah Jane...

Jane didn't come and call Nicky hysterical at the start,but the dismissive and aggressive tone didn't compare well to my ears,shall we say 🤔

Who was that second person? The standard of debate from them seemed much lower than what I’d expect from radio 4.

I don’t know who it was but he seemed like a typical man just rubbishing her statistics and concerns.

Jane fae - TW & defender of porn www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374614-John-Ozimek-now-Jane-Fae-on-women-feminists-and-victims-of-pornographers

No attempt to engage with the arguments. Just dismissal.

I’m not up to date with this but thought Nicky was good

Very clear

Jane Fae is like Peter Tatchell in that there is always an anecdote.

Years back I was a medical rep and we were told to 'paint patient pictures' to help persuade the GPs that our particular treatment was perfect. This approach by Peter Tatchell and his ilk reminds me of that approach. It doesn't work on me.

Good lord, things must be getting bad for the TRAs when they have to bring Jane 'Extreme Porn Advocate' out of the reserve lines to fill prime media slots.

Quite apart from Jane's murky background (which includes writing articles about how to clean your hard drive of illegal pornographic material and what line of defence to go for if your devices are found to contain it www.theregister.com/2009/01/24/extreme_pron_law_live/?page=2 Jane comes across badly on both TV and radio - tetchy and aggressive. Not the way to win the hearts and minds of the Today listeners over their cornflakes.

Just listening to the interview now. I'll add 'sneering' to the description of Jane Fae's tone, though Jane didn't appear to be able to address the question at all and spent their allotted time conducting a tour of irrelevant dead ends.

A bit like Jeremy Vine yesterday. He knew who to shut up when she raised her voice to match that of India W. And who to allow to use up vauable seconds of time whining about such nasty anti trans aggression on yet another day of trans rememberance, flattering him, such a valued colleague etc.

But hey! Women can have a penis!

TRAs: it's not fair, you keep debating Trans issues without Trans people present

BBC and others: OK, here are Jane Fae, Joanna Harper, India Willoughby...

Country, peaking: Oh my god it really doesn't make any sense does it

What was the debate about? I didn't hear it.

Was pretty furious at Evan Davies on PM yesterday interviewing Joanna Harper about trans women in sports once again, as if Harper were some kind of neutral expert.

It was about the conversion therapy u-turn, and the separation of the T from the LGB RoyalCorgi

Nicky de Costa going through the stats about 4000% increase in young girls presenting as trans, many of them with other issues, and how that needed to be explored carefully etc etc. Jane Fae sighs and says she talks a load of rubbish before embarking on a story about a family who imprisoned their teenager in their room and took away all their devices. Interviewer (Mischal Hussein?) spoke for all of us in saying, that's not right but it's also not relevant to this bill. JF then started talking about a 200 page dossier, and had to be interrupted with a gentle prompt that the discussion was about conversion therapy? Can't remember what Jane said to that but in a nutshell they appeared to find their armoury of facts, stats and counter-arguments quite empty.

@SamphiretheStickerist

A bit like Jeremy Vine yesterday. He knew who to shut up when she raised her voice to match that of India W. And who to allow to use up vauable seconds of time whining about such nasty anti trans aggression on yet another day of trans rememberance, flattering him, such a valued colleague etc.

But hey! Women can have a penis!

I didn't know this was on yesterday, but have just listened.

Interesting that JV refused to answer when Sharron challenged him re Emily Bridges

JV: So do you see her as a woman?

SD: I see her as male. So I see Emily as a Transgender woman who deserves respect, she deserves 100 percent safety, she deserves the opportunity to be included in sport. However, I don't believe that Emily's rights out trump all of the female race in the whole of the world. I believe women are entitled to have fair sport, the same as men are entitled to have fair sport

JV: So her biology is male, even though her gender is female, is that right? Or not even that?

SD: Well, she chooses to identify herself, doesn't she as a transgender woman, but her biology will never change. Her biological sex is male and will always remain male. So having gone through make puberty

JV: Even if she physically transitions?

SD: But what does that mean, Jeremy?

JV: Well...um..ther's all kinds of angles to it

SD: Okay. but you tell me what do you think does that mean?

JV: No, I don't want to answer the questions in this way.

SD: So, there we go. So if you identify as a woman, it doesn't change the fact that you have a biological advantage.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0015lbs

From about 4.30. IW is annoying, but most of the comments are with Sharron.

I listened to Nicky, then I turned over to R5 - I've had enough of trans waffle. But this is the first time that I have heard R4 give proper airtime to a woman's advocate, without trying to tear them down (are you listening, woman's hour??)

It bugs me that when R4 interviews someone of the male sex, (regarding what is specifically a woman's issue) who has a female name, they do not make it really clear to the listeners the sex of their interviewee. Sometimes, sex really matters. Radio is just a sound medium - I feel that we are being gaslit unless this is made very clear.

Sharron Davies used the same tactic as Kemi Badenoch - asking for an exact definition from the questioner.

It's brilliant, because it completely undermines the thought-terminating cliches and reveals the total lack of substance in this thinking.

Added benefit: makes em look like pillocks

I turned on Radio 4 in the middle of that bit about the conversion bill this morning, so I missed who was talking. The woman speaking made a really clear case about the phenomenon of ROGD. The man who came on next (didn't catch the name?) just spoke rhetoric - no facts or argument.

Jane Fae waffled with no coherent comeback.