To wonder why an MP is lying about womens bathrooms?

[TeaKlaxon]

Lucy Allen has tweeted that the Barbican has mens bathrooms and gender neutral bathrooms, but no womens bathrooms.

Lots of twitter users told her that was wrong.

The Barbican itself told her it's wrong.

But the tweet remains. AIBU to think that if an MP gets something wrong, they should apologise and remove the lie? Or to think that this is deliberate misinformation to further the myth of women being 'erased'?

twitter.com/lucyallan/status/1507076111871713282?s=20&t=D_TGgQBlnKkKZ6NEIjnzsw

@Pluvia

Women don't have penises. Biology not your strong point, *@AlisonDonut*?

I think Alison was making the point that in trans ideology (which the op seems to be championing) women do in fact have penis' and can be lesbians. Because trans women (biological men, usually with a penis) are women according to the ideology.

Ops posts make a lot more sense when you understand the whole point is to knock down women's boundaries so men can benefit.

Why they're motivated to do this is anyone's guess.

@Pluvia ah no that is revolting and is going to haunt me. Household of boys.

Alison knows that women don't have penises. But she also knows that this is no longer a universally accepted fact.

Ah I see, it's not often someone says something so batshit I assume it's sarcasm.

Can we all just agree that women's loo remain at the same or more number than any alternative. And that women's loos never contain a penis unless it's attached to a child under a certain age? Is that not a good system? Then you can crack on with gender woo woo toilets as much as you like but leave the woman's toilet alone ffs. How hard is this to understand?

No, i mean she is being sarcastic! I crossposted with you.

Poor Alison!

Ah I see. I did think it was off she said the quiet part loud.

Because it is fact that statically most trans women have a penis and no intention of losing it.

@ScreamingBeans

I must say that front-of-house theatre staff (in London certainly) tend to be young, liberal, arts graduates and are likely to be pretty frosty towards those with gender-critical views.

In that case, why don't we all just boycott these places.

Let's see how they get on without our money. Let them market to all those brave stunning trans people and see if their pound will plug the gap the loss of ours will open up.

I really don't think the cohort of people who are going to boycott arts venues because they're too inclusive of trans people is going to have the sort of economic hit to that sector you think it will.

But love the idea of gender crits just deciding to remove themselves from theatres and arts venues entirely. Go right ahead I say.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

I was under the impression that lockdown had been tough on the theatres of London.

Presumably they can afford to lose women who don't want to share cubicles with men.

You're right.

When a woman doesn't want to use gender neutral toilets at the Barbican and is faced with a choice of:

(a) using any of the five womens toilets available; or

(b) opting out of arts and culture to throw a strop

It is definitely (b) that is the more rational, sane and not at all crank-like course of action. I suspect the Barbican won't lose too many nights' sleep about losing the tiny custom such cranks bring.

Meanwhile, those who don't want to use GN toilets but decide to just use some of the many other facilities for women will get on with their lives.

@Hoppinggreen

Why would a woman actually WANT gender neutral toilets? Given a choice between a women’s toilet and a gender (sex?) neutral one why would any woman not choose the women’s? They have to remove that choice so they can claim women happily use them

But Barbican hasn't removed that choice so why are you suggesting they have?

@TeaKlaxon have you composed your retraction apologising for accusing two women of lying, despite the fact that you had no evidence that what they actually said wasn't true?

Several other posters have now produced testimony detailing similar rude treatment from staff when asking for directions to the women's toilets at this particular venue so on the balance of probabilities the woman's story is true, and the MP has not lied by sharing it.

Are you going to apologise for your baseless lie?

@Hoppinggreen

Why would a woman actually WANT gender neutral toilets? Given a choice between a women’s toilet and a gender (sex?) neutral one why would any woman not choose the women’s? They have to remove that choice so they can claim women happily use them

They have to remove that choice so they can claim women happily use them

This is exactly why this is being done, it follows the pattern of the transwomen have been using women's toilets for forever and you've all never noticed. We did notice, we did mind and we were never fucking asked for our consent, now we are saying 'No' to a mixed sex, (deliberately obfuscated as gender neutral) free for all and our 'No' is being ignored, dismissed and we are being told we are not allowed to say 'No'. That is what this ideology is - removing the right of women to say 'No' to men in any spaces and services designed for women.

@Franca123

The OP is also fine to give away the dignity and privacy of men when they're using the urinal. I would guess that most men don't want women around when they use the urinal. Or maybe I just know a particularly pleasant group of men. I'd hazard a guess that the OP is quite a unique individual as a woman wanting to see strange men piss.

OR cranks are going to crank.

And this person complaining to Lucy Allen about the toilets in a theatre 150 miles from her constituency was determined to find offence in the very existence of GN toilets regardless of the other provision of women's toilets for those who want them. And that in the face of such a crank, the actions of an usher were misrepresented.

Because here's the problem - gender critical people have a track record of lying. Lucy Allen has a track record of lying.

When a gender critical says that they couldn't find a womens toilet in one the largest theatre complexes in London, with five women's toilets, no I don't believe her. When she says an usher just laughed in her face and didn't utter a single word, no, I don't believe her.

Just like when that GB News presenter pretends there are no women's toilets in Lavery's bar in Belfast, I don't believe her. Because I know for a fact she is lying.

Sorry gender crits, but when you lie down with proven liars, then all these anonymous complaints get treated with the scepticism they deserve.

Are we talking about the tweet still or have we twisted away from it again to discussing numbers of toilets as an 'answer to the tweet'.

Just to be sure, that tweet was:

I received this message today: “I was at the Barbican yesterday where there were male toilets, disabled toilets, and gender neutral toilets. I asked where were the female toilets as I am not gender neutral I am a woman and they laughed in my face. Women are being erased.”

But I am sure it will become quite apparent to readers just how deeply prejudiced this OP is that they wish to continue to pretend that the woman asking for the single sex female toilet was not laughed at and given no answer to her request.

Maybe the OP believes if an usher were to do this, they would be 'righteous' and worthy of praise.

It is quite like a broken record though and there is little acknowledgement of the other poster who reported similar behaviour when she asked for the female single sex toilet.

[quote DdraigGoch]@TeaKlaxon have you composed your retraction apologising for accusing two women of lying, despite the fact that you had no evidence that what they actually said wasn't true?

Several other posters have now produced testimony detailing similar rude treatment from staff when asking for directions to the women's toilets at this particular venue so on the balance of probabilities the woman's story is true, and the MP has not lied by sharing it.

Are you going to apologise for your baseless lie?[/quote]
If any sensible and sane person gets crap treatment at an establishment, they complain to that establishment. If they don't get satisfaction, they perhaps vow never to go there again. They might leave a stinking review.

They (the sensible and sane person) does not typically go to complain to their MP (or indeed, an MP 150 miles away from the establishment).

So no, no intentions at all of apologising for thinking Lucy Allen and her 'constituent' are deeply dishonest people, and that gender crits deserve all the scepticism they get because of how many of their leaders lie repeatedly.

The only person who is absolutely definitely lying in this thread is you @TeaKlaxon

I'm embarrassed for you

@Helleofabore

Are we talking about the tweet still or have we twisted away from it again to discussing numbers of toilets as an 'answer to the tweet'.

Just to be sure, that tweet was:

I received this message today: “I was at the Barbican yesterday where there were male toilets, disabled toilets, and gender neutral toilets. I asked where were the female toilets as I am not gender neutral I am a woman and they laughed in my face. Women are being erased.”

But I am sure it will become quite apparent to readers just how deeply prejudiced this OP is that they wish to continue to pretend that the woman asking for the single sex female toilet was not laughed at and given no answer to her request.

Maybe the OP believes if an usher were to do this, they would be 'righteous' and worthy of praise.

It is quite like a broken record though and there is little acknowledgement of the other poster who reported similar behaviour when she asked for the female single sex toilet.

Did this supposed constituent of Lucy Allen (do we know she was a constituent, by the way? - or just a crank picking an MP most likely to give a platform to her crankery?) complain to the Barbican?

After all, if you receive poor service that is the first step, surely? Complaining to the establishment so they can sort it out.

So what was the response when a complaint was made to the Barbican?

@Clymene

The only person who is absolutely definitely lying in this thread is you *@TeaKlaxon*

I'm embarrassed for you

Don't worry about me Clymene.

I'm off to the theatre tonight, eagerly awaiting the great gender crit boycott of arts 2022. If you guys could organise said boycott to begin this evening, that would be super.

@Franca123

Can we all just agree that women's loo remain at the same or more number than any alternative. And that women's loos never contain a penis unless it's attached to a child under a certain age? Is that not a good system? Then you can crack on with gender woo woo toilets as much as you like but leave the woman's toilet alone ffs. How hard is this to understand?

Who's going to be checking for a penis?

Oh I'm not worried about you @TeaKlaxon, I'm embarrassed for you.

You do understand that those are totally different things, right?

OR cranks are going to crank.

And this person complaining to Lucy Allen about the toilets in a theatre 150 miles from her constituency was determined to find offence in the very existence of GN toilets regardless of the other provision of women's toilets for those who want them. And that in the face of such a crank, the actions of an usher were misrepresented.

Because here's the problem - gender critical people have a track record of lying.

Your posts are really doing a great job all by themselves of discrediting your own views. Your posts are so steeped in prejudice and you cannot see it.

Cranks, liars, finding offence

Really? Should posters start posting evidence of the lies, the misogynistic statements made by those who are similarly pushing your own political agenda OP? It is quite horrific to see it all being laid out on a thread.

But if you want to keep persisting in your derogation of women and men who are saying that there is an issue, that they don't want gender neutral or mixed sex toilets and you have continued to put your own very unbalanced political framing on a tweet rather than address the issue raised in the tweet, that is up to you. Please crack on giving readers a live demonstration on the very tactics that are being used across different topics around gender identity to silence people who have just as valid reasons for not agreeing with you.

Did this supposed constituent of Lucy Allen (do we know she was a constituent, by the way? - or just a crank picking an MP most likely to give a platform to her crankery?) complain to the Barbican?

After all, if you receive poor service that is the first step, surely? Complaining to the establishment so they can sort it out.

So what was the response when a complaint was made to the Barbican?

Who knows if they escalated it. Why does that matter?

The fact is, the woman asking for a female toilet was laughed at. By the Barbican's staff member. Why does anyone being treated like that have to follow your rules of complaint escalation?

Some people will take it as a sign that any complaint would be ignored, laughed at just the same.

Just to clarify, are you saying you think that:

Humans can't tell the sex of other humans without looking at their penis

?
Quite the claim.

@Helleofabore

OR cranks are going to crank.

And this person complaining to Lucy Allen about the toilets in a theatre 150 miles from her constituency was determined to find offence in the very existence of GN toilets regardless of the other provision of women's toilets for those who want them. And that in the face of such a crank, the actions of an usher were misrepresented.

Because here's the problem - gender critical people have a track record of lying.

Your posts are really doing a great job all by themselves of discrediting your own views. Your posts are so steeped in prejudice and you cannot see it.

Cranks, liars, finding offence

Really? Should posters start posting evidence of the lies, the misogynistic statements made by those who are similarly pushing your own political agenda OP? It is quite horrific to see it all being laid out on a thread.

But if you want to keep persisting in your derogation of women and men who are saying that there is an issue, that they don't want gender neutral or mixed sex toilets and you have continued to put your own very unbalanced political framing on a tweet rather than address the issue raised in the tweet, that is up to you. Please crack on giving readers a live demonstration on the very tactics that are being used across different topics around gender identity to silence people who have just as valid reasons for not agreeing with you.

I think you should learn what derogation means.

I suspect you meant denigration?

@Helleofabore

Did this supposed constituent of Lucy Allen (do we know she was a constituent, by the way? - or just a crank picking an MP most likely to give a platform to her crankery?) complain to the Barbican?

After all, if you receive poor service that is the first step, surely? Complaining to the establishment so they can sort it out.

So what was the response when a complaint was made to the Barbican?

Who knows if they escalated it. Why does that matter?

The fact is, the woman asking for a female toilet was laughed at. By the Barbican's staff member. Why does anyone being treated like that have to follow your rules of complaint escalation?

Some people will take it as a sign that any complaint would be ignored, laughed at just the same.

That's just it - that's not a fact.

That is a claim. A claim by Lucy Allen, who has a history of making things up.

Meanwhile, anyone whose first response to getting a poor service in an establishment is to complain to an MP 150 miles from the establishment? Yeah, that person is a crank.