Lia Thomas - Social Media

[waterbabys]

Honestly this is just a rant.

I have now seen at least 4 or 5 people on my social media (friends and family so cannot delete them) who have ZERO background or interest in sport, now sharing articles defending Lia's right to swim with females. I feel like I'm going mad. Every time I see posts like this I want to challenge them, I know all the facts & stats because as an ex-national swimmer I've followed this story intently, but ultimately I'm a coward afraid for my job.

😩 RIP women's sport. I feel like giving up.

@334bu yip. And women that care about how hard we have had to fight for our quotas and prizes and safety see right through it.

As a lifelong Labour supporter (possibly not for much longer) I no longer care whether I am called right wing, terf, bigot, fascist, Daily Mail reader etc just because I believe in a woman's right to single sex spaces.

I’ve noticed the opposite…..thankfully. There’s a little part of me that is grateful to LT for making it so patently obvious that allowing trans women to compete in female sports is unfair. It might help put a stop to it. Because if it’s allowed to go on, there will be no more women’s sport. Just men’s sport and transwomen sport. There will be nothing for biological females.

@Violetparis ditto. Lifelong Labour voter here too - also an atheist. No more. But clearly I am a far right Christian bigot. Lazy flippin narrative. I also think there is something about women who have seen a bit of life and therefore more likely to have experienced misogyny and abuse - who get that gender ideology is a very convenient place for men who hate women to hang out. Quite a lot of youngsters won’t roll their eyes like we do yet.

@CatherinaJTV I consistently see posts in MN where people talk about being politically homeless, have always voted left etc why is the TRA position that we are all right wing or god fearing christian people - I'm left, only ever voted labour and I'm concerned about womens spaces, sports, rights and children. Surely you MUST get it now, we are NOT RIGHT WING! And why does no one ever wonder, seeing that there are large numbers of girls that ares saying they are boys, if this was true and it just more acceptable to be 'trans' where are the large numbers of women in their 30,40, 50 etc coming out as trans...... ? we have the older man, married, had a family, then suddenly proclaiming he's a women, but where are all the women doing the same? The only one is ~ Page, and I am not are they are a very good example, as they seem incredibly vulnerable, as a women and a man. Do you not wonder this, do you not care that there might be other reasons girls are going this?

@RoseslnTheHospital

The wrestler is a trans man who competes in the women's (girls?) competitions, as the law in their state demands they compete against the same natal sex. The controversy there is that this athlete is allowed to take testosterone where the other competitors are not. Hence they have an unfair advantage. They may want to compete against male competitors, but legally they cannot atm. So a natal female competing against women.

The swimmer, did spend a year on the men's swim team in their last year of college, but it's unclear if they competed and how they placed. They don't swim competitively since leaving college, as far as I can tell.

The hockey player was on women's teams throughout their career. Not sure what the point of this case is, as it's a case of a natal female playing in female teams.

The boxer had one match against a man, and won. Since then they can't find an opponent willing to fight, presumably because any opponent sensibly don't want the additional risk (than against a male) of seriously injuring their opponent. Also, the boxer is 35 or older, and trying to get a professional boxing career off the ground at that age is going to be a big ask whatever sex you are.

the question was for trans men who want to compete with men, so I am not sure how my examples are not fitting, especially the wrestling and the boxer cases.

I wonder if it works the same way the other way round? If I cut my hair short and put on a pair of Speedos and said I am a man would they mind at my local pool? (For clarity, I am a biological woman

The wonderful women of Man Friday did that a few years ago and documented the reactions on here. That was when it was first kicking off.

Funnily enough they were denounced as being transphobic and the men at Hampstead mens swimming pond weren’t too keen on being invaded by females - regardless of how they identified or their presentation with bushy beards and trunks.

They were the ones who first brought this whole thing to my attention. Fabulous disrupters

it was also like a 90 second google search. There will be more examples out there...

@RoyKentsChestHair

I wonder if it works the same way the other way round? If I cut my hair short and put on a pair of Speedos and said I am a man would they mind at my local pool? (For clarity, I am a biological woman

The wonderful women of Man Friday did that a few years ago and documented the reactions on here. That was when it was first kicking off.

Funnily enough they were denounced as being transphobic and the men at Hampstead mens swimming pond weren’t too keen on being invaded by females - regardless of how they identified or their presentation with bushy beards and trunks.

They were the ones who first brought this whole thing to my attention. Fabulous disrupters

Not only did they disrupt, the men called the police out to remove them from the pool.

So men now have the male pool, the mixed pool and the female pool if they say 'im a woman'.

And women who don't want to swim with men get nowhere. Women who are religious and can't swim with males, get nowhere.

But it's all fine and all about trans rights, women have nothing to lose, right?

So sick of the right wing narrative associated with feminism. I am on the progressive left, once belonged to the Green Party in my country. Currently have a local BLM sign in my yard and I've never voted for a single conservative in my life. And yet somehow I think men don't belong in women's spaces nor our sports.

Up until recently, it was considered very leftist to have feminist values.

@Delphinium20 yep. But then the Labour Party was set up as a working mans party. Never had a female leader. Maybe it all starts slotting into place.

My mistake, I thought you were trying to show TM accepted onto men;s teams.

So yes, the examples you gave WANT to join men's teams, but it looks like the men's teams don't want them, because of the disadvantage that being female gives them in competitive sport.

Sex matters. Identities don't compete in sports, sexed bodies do.

Show them this

If he is not breaking any rules, then strictly speaking he is not cheating. Morally, he is in the wrong

Exploiting a loophole is definitely morally wrong and people usually do see it as cheating in other contexts. Jimmy Carr exploiting a tax loophole, Martin Shkreli exploiting a loophole to increase the price of medication…there was no sympathy of “oh they’re just playing by the rules, poor them, they don’t deserve the hate they’re getting.” Regardless of whether something is technically legal or permissible doesn’t make it right.

I have a FB friend who lots about how amazing Lia is blah blah. I'm afraid I don't have the energy to get into a FB argument and yes, I have an profession and it could lead to disciplinary action. Unlikely but not a risk I am willing to take.

I'm a coward

In what way is Thomas amazing? A swimmer swims, and that's what that person is doing. Hardly amazing.

Should Thomas be swimming with women? Obviously not. Only women should be in women's races. So how is Thomas amazing?

If the amazing remark is to me, I don't think it's amazing, I think it's cheating. I haven't explored why my friend thinks it's amazing because I don't like to engage in a FB argument that may have real life consequences.

So many are staying silent, such is the current ideology. I'm not being paranoid, I know what the CEO of my regulatory body believes (or at least says publicly).

The amazing remark is to your FB friend, Sausages.

Or just in general, because I have seen similar comments.

The only bit about this that I don't understand is this...

Why does she even want to compete against biological girls? Surely it's a hollow victory? Where is the achievement? It's like my daughter who plays tennis getting a walkover in the final. No victory unless there's actually a fair contest.

She needs her own category. Make it fair. Swim against other girls who used to be boys.

As for the girls who currently have to swim against her - surely they should all boycott the races?!

I think men are really starting to notice this now, thanks to Thomas.

Just had a squint at Pistonheads and was quite heartened by this comment alongside the attached photo:

If anyone has problem with a large, powerful human male who has enjoyed all the physical advantages that brings, failing to achieve anything in the mens competitions then deciding to "be a lady", switching to the womens competition and beating all records.

Well, you can suck her dick

@AeroMocha

These people must be beyond stupid

The thing is, they're really not. They're just very liberal and very concerned about possibly offending someone and feel that accepting transwomen is the best thing that they can do.. It doesn't help that the women that lose out, way down the chain, are hypothetical and invisible (especially if the ones that come 3rd and 4th are feeling like they have to say that they are in support). It's much harder to feel sorry for hypothetical girls in grassroots sports who are losing out, when they aren't telling their storie as victims of oppresion in your face, the way transwomen are. At least, that's the only way I can reconcile what's happening. People who aren't stupid, but are convinced that transwomen shoudl be allowed to compete, that JKR has abused them terribly, that transwomen just want to pee in peace, that most transwomen have had surgery and hormones and a troubled tormented past and need all our sympathy, so that they aren't oppressed in the way gay people were in the past. I think sometimes it's misplaced guilt for that that is driving some of this.

Being a liberal doesn’t preclude being stupid.

@waterbabys - take heart, none of my friends think this is ok - please keep going, it’s going to take awhile but sense will prevail eventually!

Anyone remember the ManFriday thing on here back in 2018? IIRC it started when a local swimming pool allowing male bodied swimmers in during ladies only swimming, but not the opposite because the men would get upset. I think she identified as a man on Fridays to make her point.
Sounds like the whole campaign needs to be resurrected.

@Bolets

I would reply with this image, and "does this seem fair?"

I can't make head nor tail of that

@Blimeyherewegoagain

Anyone remember the ManFriday thing on here back in 2018? IIRC it started when a local swimming pool allowing male bodied swimmers in during ladies only swimming, but not the opposite because the men would get upset. I think she identified as a man on Fridays to make her point. Sounds like the whole campaign needs to be resurrected.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3261705-Turns-out-Hampstead-swimming-ponds-are-single-SEX-after-all