Boris has nailed colours to mast

[Ridcully82]

On gender transition at PMQs:" biology overwhelmingly important", preceded by urging respect for those feeling they need to transition. Sounded calm, respectful,and kinda where we were on course before the TRA actions.

'There is not way he thinks it is factually wrong to say only women have a cervix. He does think it is politically wrong to say it.'

Well, we'll never know. He will continue to say he believes lies, and I will continue to take him at his word.

(I don't care what he really thinks if he hasn't got the guts to say it.)

Voting Tory as a feminist feels very much like wanting to stay with an abuser because he buys flowers sometimes

Whereas being coerced to vote Labour against our own interests seems fine and not abusive at all.
How can you stack up all the gaslighting, bullying, lying and attacks and write the above sentence I will never know.

I'm looking at it in a longterm/short-term way. Shorterm keep Labour put long enough for them to abandon their worship of gender ideology. Once that is put to bed, vote for the party I think will do best for everyone.
However, I won't be voting tribally again so when the time comes I will vote for whose policies are most robust and not just for the most ideological.

'Voting Tory as a feminist feels very much like wanting to stay with an abuser because he buys flowers sometimes.'

Voting Labour as a feminist feels like hitting myself in the head with a blunt instrument.

I find it very odd that people here are happy to vote for someone who does not support misogyny being made a hate crime.

Stonewall worked with Stella Creasy on making misogyny a hate crime. Why stonewall I wonder, why not feminist groups? If you think misogyny as a hate crime won't be used as a weapon to silence women, I have a bridge to sell you.

I will never vote labour because if this issue. Very pleased to see someone (even if it is Boris!) standing up fir common sense.

I'll say it again, JKR to lead our new feminist party please

This is a huge issue and I'd be interested in a poll to see how many mners have changed their minds on Labour in the last 5 years or so.

Charlotte Nichols tells me to pipe down - how is that different to 'calm down dear'. She is an ex Shadow Women's and Equalities Minister.
It's not all about Boris there are many good strong female Tories like Kemi and Jackie Doyle Price. Idiots like Crispin Blunt will never be Ministers unlike David Lammy.
When Harriet Harman and Yvette Cooper refuse to stand up and be counted what's the point of clinging to any hope. Labour are dead to me.

@DoobryWhatsit

Ugh. I agree with exactly what he said, and the manner in which he said it. And I absolutely don't have time for any of Kier Starmer's blithering bullshit. Please someone tell me that I haven't just hit that point in middle-age where I suddenly switch to being a tory bastard?!!

I'm older than you & I actually joined the Labour Party late in life, though I resigned when they forgot that women matter just as much as men. If they ever get their heads out of their **s I'd vote for them or even join them again.

SNP was/is a success on the basis of a single policy - Scottish Independence and they hit it at the right time

This is not quite true. The SNP had been gaining in support prior to the referendum (obviously) and were attracting support from people who did not support independence because of their policies. I knew many people who were voting SNP and just brushed away concerns about independence saying that it would never happen or be voted for.
After the independence vote, scottish voting did become polarised on this issue. And the Brexit vote polarised it further causing some previous unionists to switch allegiance.

Once you've crossed the line it feels great, like breathing freely. I stopped getting the Guardian years ago and now I get The Times, I have zero embarrassment about it.

Could I vote tory? I've never considered it before. But we live in the upside down now so I'm ruling absolutely nothing out.

I don't trust Boris, or the Conervatives, don't like any of their policies (excpet this one) and have never voted for them before. But, as the only party speaking sense on this they have my vote. I will do it with a bitter taste in my mouth but having always been taught the importance of voting, and being unable to bring myself to vote for any of the other parties who cannot even recognise biology as fact I feel I have no other option.

@whitecreambluejug

Voting Tory as a feminist feels very much like wanting to stay with an abuser because he buys flowers sometimes

Well, if you think women prisoners not being housed with sex offenders, sex abuse victims not having to share accommodation and therapeutic support with men, women not being believed about rape as there was no 'man' there to rape them, women not being able to win at their own sports, if you think all that is equivalent to a bunch of tulips, then I don't think there is anything left to say to you.

That stuff does matter to me, but so does all the stuff I posted about that you cropped out.

But if 19 things they do are harmful to women, and 1 of them isn't, or feels very short sighted to side with them on the basis of that 1 thing.

Obviously if the 1 thing was that much bigger than the 19 things then fair enough, but I don't feel it is. And yes I do struggle with there not being a party that absolutely 100% represents my views, of course I do. But I have to go with the one that covers more of them, and just hope that one day with enough pressure and persuasion we can change that.

I suspect we'd have a far harder job trying to persuade the Torys to give a fuck about any other women's rights, or disability or poverty or workers rights or race issues etc.

When it comes to election time vote for who you want. But if you think the trans issue will be anything but a marginal issue issue for the vast, vast majority of voters- male or female - you are very naive. Cost of living, wages, energy, house prices, overwhelmed health services + possibly climate change and any war related security issues.
And besides, on the Trans/ Gender issue, the parties will simply say what it is they think their base/the electorate want to hear to get into office. The vast majority of them couldn’t give a shit either way.

Ha ha I've used that very same analogy of being in a crap relationship with someone who buys you a bunch of flowers every so often. Many times. On this board. Except my crappy relationship was with the Labour Party.

@whitecreambluejug

SNP was/is a success on the basis of a single policy - Scottish Independence and they hit it at the right time

This is not quite true. The SNP had been gaining in support prior to the referendum (obviously) and were attracting support from people who did not support independence because of their policies. I knew many people who were voting SNP and just brushed away concerns about independence saying that it would never happen or be voted for.
After the independence vote, scottish voting did become polarised on this issue. And the Brexit vote polarised it further causing some previous unionists to switch allegiance.

Thanks for that further insight, that's interesting.

That stuff does matter to me, but so does all the stuff I posted about that you cropped out

Yeah, but I didn't insult all that stuff as being just a bunch of flowers, did I?

@theworldhas

When it comes to election time vote for who you want. But if you think the trans issue will be anything but a marginal issue issue for the vast, vast majority of voters- male or female - you are very naive. Cost of living, wages, energy, house prices, overwhelmed health services + possibly climate change and any war related security issues. And besides, on the Trans/ Gender issue, the parties will simply say what it is they think their base/the electorate want to hear to get into office. The vast majority of them couldn’t give a shit either way.

But lots of people vote tory as default (not sure why but history shows...) even when in financial strife etc, Labour have always had to push harder to promise real change ala Tony Blair, so seems odd they are doubling down on a topic that not only will draw many new voters but will actively cause some to not vote for them.

Labour have been wishy washy on this issue for a while. Labour are also at least 10% ahead in the polls nationally (polls which, contrary to popular /tabloid belief, have been pretty accurate over past couple of decades).

There’s always a million or so “I would never ever ever usually vote Tory but this time I absolutely have to because of Labours policy on XYZ” Tory voters at every election. The polls have already factored you in!

@Floisme

Ha ha I've used that very same analogy of being in a crap relationship with someone who buys you a bunch of flowers every so often. Many times. On this board. Except my crappy relationship was with the Labour Party.

I do feel like we're trapped between two awful men, one who thinks we should get back in the kitchen and should know our place and will enforce it violently, and the other who thinks he's really the nice guy but also thinks we owe him something because he bought us a drink once and he won't tell us to make him a sandwich but will expect it. Neither is appealing.

I wish so much we had a better choice.

I do also agree tory policy towards women isn't great, but similarly I think it's better than not recognising what a woman is at all, there is no way that will make things better for women. Stuff we have started to see like biological men wanting to be welcomed into women's spaces is genuinely scary and will have awful repercussions for lots of people, including some of the most vulnerable (those in hospital, refuges, homeless, girls) amongst others. Also intrigued how stuff like maternity rights would be affected if the government in charge can't even acknowledge basic facts like men can't give birth.

suspect we'd have a far harder job trying to persuade the Torys to give a fuck about any other women's rights, or disability or poverty or workers rights or race issues etc.
Conservatives did a 180 due to Marcus Rachford and public pressure very recently.
They will change when needed to survive, whereas Labour remain wedded to ideology so never change tack.

if you think the trans issue will be anything but a marginal issue issue for the vast, vast majority of voters- male or female

Well that's the hope of keeping it minimalised and out of public sight as much as possible, certainly. No debate, frantic attempts to hush it all up, there's a good reason for it.

Because once you start thinking about it, it affects every damn thing for half the population. Everything. What the hell else could matter to me as a woman politically once I've been vanished and reduced to a second class citizen?

Largely why women keep talking and raising awareness here.

The polls are not relevant because of our FPTP system. That's why the Tories have won. Opposition is split.

@whitecreambluejug

That stuff does matter to me, but so does all the stuff I posted about that you cropped out

Yeah, but I didn't insult all that stuff as being just a bunch of flowers, did I?

I'm sorry if it came across that way, that wasn't my intention. I've been on FWR and angry about this for years, so not dismissing it at all. Though I strongly suspect it means as much to Boris as a wilted bouquet from the local garage, just convenient for now.