Cis-gender queer woman

[EmmaGrundyForPM]

A colleague described herself recently as being a cis-gender queer woman. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but isn't that the same as being a lesbian? So why not call herself a lesbian? Presumably there's a reason but can't work out what.

@Highlandrainbows

I don't think the word queer is that confusing? Could mean bisexual instead of lesbian.

I'm a lesbian and the word queer isn't for me but it doesn't just mean lesbian!

Thanks, I hadn't considered that. I guess I was equating queer with gay, so my fault.

If a colleague said "I went on top then sucked him off", I would say "STFU, I don't give a shit". Is the equivalent of someone boring me with their gender identity

Lesbian but not transwomen maybe? Who knows. You could ask if she brings it up again?

Just to add, I was curious to understand why someone would describe themselves in that way if they meant lesbian. I'm not at all interested in the sexual preferences of anyone else at work. I haven't got a clue whether she has a partner or what sex that partner is.

I've sometimes gone a bit queen when my bloodsugar is a bit low. Perhaps she wants a biscuit?

She might feel uncomfortable using the word "lesbian" which has become ambiguous in recent years

In what sense has it?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

She might feel uncomfortable using the word "lesbian" which has become ambiguous in recent years

In what sense has it?

You have to find people with penises attractive as well now.

I felt like Daisy was maybe doing the reverse of that, implying that women clearly stating their boundaries made being a lesbian "ambiguous" with the implication that the term "lesbian" has always meant to include males who identify as women and those pesky exclusively same sex attracted women with boundaries have hijacked it. It seemed quite a stretch so happy to apologise if I have got it wrong, Can you clarify, @DaisyWaldron ?

I've seen "lesbian" used by different groups to identify slightly different forms of attraction, especially as there are more transgender people in society. I know one woman whose former wife is now her husband. I know another whose former husband is now her wife. I know several who have been attracted to, and had relationships with both men and women in the past, but who have chosen only to pursue relationships with women, or who are married to women. I know others who have only ever been attracted to women. I know some who have only ever been attracted to women with one exception, and in one case she married the exception. I know some women who don't care about the label, but care about the body, and can be attracted to trans men, and non binary people as long they have a vulva rather than a penis, but wouldn't fancy a trans woman in a million years. I know other women who could be attracted to a trans woman with breasts and a smooth face, but wouldn't feel the tiniest bit of desire for a trans man. I know a trans woman whose relationships have all been with other trans women. I've seen all of those people call themselves, and be described by others as lesbians.

Over the past couple of years, "lesbian" has become associated increasingly associated with being gender critical so depending on the context, I would think that someone who described herself as a lesbian(or an event described as being for lesbians) would be more likely to fall into the "only interested in women with a vulva and possibly only other lesbians with a vulva" camp, and whereas people/events that aren't gender critical are more likely to use "queer" "gay" or "sapphic".

There are only women with a vulva. Any woman without a vulva is so for medical reasons.

Over the past couple of years, "lesbian" has become associated increasingly associated with being gender critical

It's always meant women only attracted to other women. Nothing to do with being "gender critical", just that these women have to put up with homophobic denial of exclusive same sex attraction. As many gay men do, but lesbians are targeted for male sexuality reasons.

Why are there so many "trans lesbians" in comparison to "straight" ones? Because the high percentage of heterosexual males is reflected in that.

@DaisyWaldron

She might be a lesbian, or bisexual, or asexual. She might be in a relationship with a trans person where other people perceive her as straight/a lesbian because of it when she sees herself differently. She might fall into more than one category, eg be asexual but romantically attracted to women. She might prefer an umbrella term like "queer" that suggests things she has in common with, eg gay and bisexual men and lesbians/bisexual women rather than being part of a smaller discrete group. She might feel uncomfortable using the word "lesbian" which has become ambiguous in recent years and feel that "queer" more clearly signifies an openness to relationships with trans women/non binary people. She might see it as a way of joyfully reclaiming a slur and being part of a tradition of fighting homophobia. Or she might just like the sound of it better.

You could always ask her.

...or she might be completely self-obsessed.

"feel that [the Q word]more clearly signifies an openness to relationships with trans women/non binary people"
It means she's bisexual if that is the case. The rest is just navel gazing bullshit

Queer is a problematic term. The people using it to try to seem open and inclusive need to be aware of what they’re potentially aligning themselves with.

Queer theory and ‘queering’ of everything is very sinister indeed.

If you use the Q word, it means you have been duped into thinking that straight people are anything other than straight. There are lesbians, bisexuals and gay men. The rest is just window dressing.

Yep.

I know a few women who call themselves 'queer'. They're all straight, all currently or have previously been in relationships with men. They hint at having 'experimented' with their sexuality at some point (who hasn't?) One of them claimed to be 'bisexual sometimes' - surely you're always bisexual if it's an orientation, unless those sometimes are just a showing you're putting on to titillate men? They all have short hair, so perhaps that's what it means, a straight woman with short hair who wants to give the impression that she's up for anything, whilst being in a mundane heterosexual relationship.

...although, come to think of it, seeing as 'cis-gender' relies on regressive gender stereotypes, and these straight women I know have short hair, then perhaps they don't class themselves as 'cis-gender queer' and are just 'queer', or even 'trans queer'. It's almost as if it's all meaningless, isn't it?

Everyone has to be special these days. Brave and stunning and whatnot.

They’ve not been taught that no, you’re really not special. You’re very much like many other people. And that’s okay.

Well yes. Meaningless guff when you give it even the most cursory analysis.

Regressive boxes getting progressively more rigid. It’s madness really and I feel really sorry for young people who aren’t allowed to just be anymore.

I can’t even be bothered to work out what the hell this means. Tiresome and attention seeking is what your friend is.

I thought queer now meant 'quirky'? Wasn't it offensive to call gay people queer? I've seen people refer to themselves as Cis straight and queer lol, I thought it was one of those things that actually meant nothing and that people called themselves so that they could fit into the lgbt umbrella without actually being lgbt

@TabithaHazel

It’s very confusing. I recently saw someone on Twitter describe themselves as non binary and trans. How one could be both I can’t quite work out. Your colleague might not actually be a lesbian by the way, lots of straight people are calling themselves queer these days (I think for attention). For example the model Lily Cole who is married to a man and has seemingly led a exclusively heterosexual life now describes herself as queer.

I imagine non binary trans would be, someone who feels like the opposite sex but also doesn't fit into the binary or that sex's stereotypes?

I mean let's be real almost everyone on the planet is non binary, I might start referring to myself as non binary actually, because I don't fit into the binary of female stereotypes, I think I have some masculine traits and some feminine traits, so I guess I am a straight non binary woman (she/her) 😜

@BigHeartyTruffle

Why does it matter what she calls herself? Why do people care so much? There are plenty of reasons she might refer to herself in that way, and it isn’t anyone else’s business. This board claims to be about feminism yet here you all are, making bitchy comments about a women you don’t know for a personal choice she’s has made, that has nothing to do with you.

Why has she stood up and told everybody then? There's loads of stuff about me that I don't think is anybody else's business, so I don't go around shouting about them and making them other peoples business