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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Cis-gender queer woman

123 replies

EmmaGrundyForPM · 23/03/2022 05:07

A colleague described herself recently as being a cis-gender queer woman. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but isn't that the same as being a lesbian? So why not call herself a lesbian? Presumably there's a reason but can't work out what.

OP posts:
RobotValkyrie · 23/03/2022 07:21

Maybe she's just a straight female who likes to dye her hair pink and hang around with other "queer" folks.

Queer isn't a very descriptive label at all. It covers so many potential sexual orientations and gender feelings, for some people it seems to be more of a shortcut for a visual style, and a certain set of beliefs. An identity, a sense of belonging to a tribe, but with no specific behaviour attached, aside from a number of codified norms such as announcing your pronouns and correcting others for misgendering and other perceived infractions.
It's a religion. Which increasingly seems to have very little to do with actual sexuality (as in, shagging other people), and a lot more to do with imagined self, and getting this internal sense of self validated by wider society.

Which is where they lose me. Sure, in my head, I'm a 10 foot tall female armored flying robot knight, and will sometimes act like it in real life (Blush... Figuratively, obviously)
But I don't dress up like one, or ask others to address me as one. I don't need to. I know who I am. I self actualise just fine by smiting virtual enemies, be they complex problems at work, or pixelated blobs on a video game console screen.

Queer folks remind me of furrier and otherkins, but much, much more vanilla. Cosplaying and roleplaying as another gender? Boring... If you're gonna explore your "true self", why stick to human? Clearly this is some kind of "spiritual quest" to define your soul. Sure. Whatever. Nothing wrong with a bit of shamanism. But "cute girl in a sexy dress" as your totem animal? Meh. Unbelievably mainstream.

Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase · 23/03/2022 07:22

I don’t understand this obsession over having to have a label. I mean, does it really matter?

TabithaHazel · 23/03/2022 07:23

@DaisyWaldron

If someone cares enough about the answer to start a thread on Mumsnet, presumably they either genuinely want to know the answer, in which case asking the colleague seems sensible, or they want to start a conversation where they get to talk about their dislike of people who use the word "queer" and get to complain about the tediousness of woke attention-seeking narcissistic blue-haired spicy straight pick-me handmaidens.
Not really, it’s an interesting discussion point. I’m interested in the reasons behind the recent rise in queer identity in western society in general, but I’m in no way interested in the individual orientations of my colleagues and I imagine the OP is the same. Can you imagine if the OP actually asked the colleague, the colleague would then have their narcissism validated and the OP would never hear the end of it.
NitroNine · 23/03/2022 07:23

Oh FFS anti-Semitic!

(No idea what happened there, but sincere apologies for the mistake nonetheless.)

bellinisurge · 23/03/2022 07:24

Genuinely don't give a shit if someone is a lesbian. Can't bear the narcissism

DuckyNoMates · 23/03/2022 07:25

@EmmaGrundyForPM

A colleague described herself recently as being a cis-gender queer woman. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but isn't that the same as being a lesbian? So why not call herself a lesbian? Presumably there's a reason but can't work out what.
How did this come up at work? If it's general chit chat then ask her if she minds explaining what "queer" means to her?
BellaMachine · 23/03/2022 07:26

[quote NitroNine]@BellaMachine
I assume PP meant the anti-Semetic slur (if you were to abbreviate Yiddish & rhyme it with “did”)[/quote]
Thank you.

PenguindreamsofDraco · 23/03/2022 07:31

@PaleBlueMoonlight it's a fantastically useful label. It stands as shorthand for look at meeeee, ask me about meeee. Grin

bellinisurge · 23/03/2022 07:34

"I'm straight but I have short hair and secretly fancy Kylie Minogue [or whoever]" seems to be the definition of the "Q" word

Pllink · 23/03/2022 07:35

Why do you care?

cekema · 23/03/2022 09:23

@BuanoKubiamVej

She's might not necessarily be a lesbian. If she's in a relationship with a male person who identifies as anything other than cisgender (not necessarily a transwomen. Identifying as nombinary in order to reject toxic masculinity is quite popular) then that would probably mean that logically she can't be heterosexual because she's not in a relationship with a "man".
I am confused. (Perhaps that is what is intended?)

What is a "man"? -- Clearly not the same as a man, because otherwise why the scare-quotes? But, then, what?

If she is in a relationship with a male person, she is heterosexual (or pretending to be). She is in a relationship with a man. Men just are male people.

What on earth is going on here? What is this "man" that is different from a man?

Is a "man" a woman? If so, why not say so? But if so, and the person in question is in a relationship with a male person, is she indeed to be thought of as merely pretending to be heterosexual?

As for the transwoman identifying as nombinary: 'popular', you say? (Ordinary quote quotes there, notice.) Huh? You what?

I suppose you have to laugh. What a lot of old cobblers.

bellinisurge · 23/03/2022 09:32

Unless someone has a DSD, if you have a dick and are shagging someone with a dick, you are a gay man. If you sometimes shag (or want to shag) someone with a vagina you are bisexual. And if you have a vagina and are shagging someone with a vagina, you are a lesbian. If you sometimes shag or want to shag someone with a dick, you are bisexual.

Beamur · 23/03/2022 09:51

Is it relevant for work purposes?
If not I think I'd be disinterested in what it means..

IdentifyingAsAPrincess · 23/03/2022 09:53

She straight and wants to be special.

bellinisurge · 23/03/2022 09:55

Appropriating discrimination that lesbians still endure to seem cool. Wanker.

MadameDragon · 23/03/2022 09:57

She gets to decide what to call herself.
You get to decide whether you want to interact with her beyond what is needed for work.

MiladyBerserko · 23/03/2022 10:01

We now have to acknowledge other people's narcissism and kink to be 'progressive'. Oh happy days.

MoonOnASpoon · 23/03/2022 10:05

I wonder if what she’s actually announcing is “don’t hate me, I’m not one of those scary feminists and I would never exclude men from my lesbianism if that’s what you’re wondering, do it to Julia.”

Or maybe just “oh shit I don’t have anything LBGTQ+ to announce and so am of lesser worth. I’m just a bogstandard straight person and even worse, female! Quick I’ll be “cis queer” everyone will be too scared to say they don’t know what that means. Phew I’m in. Do it to Julia”

IvyTwines · 23/03/2022 10:06

There seems to be a push in the arts and media to drop the word lesbian and replace it with the more 'blurred lines' word 'queer'. I've noticed it time and time again in contexts where 5 or 10 years ago a TV or play character or performer or novel would have been described as 'lesbian' (biological women, same sex attracted) and she is now just called 'queer' (a word with undefined boundaries, could be any sex, could be having sex with any sex). It feels like a very deliberate attempt through the shifting of language to open up women to all comers.

Mysterian · 23/03/2022 10:09

Yes I also know someone who describes herself as queer. She's been married to a man for 8 years and got together with him after divorcing her previous husband.

Apparently it has nothing to do with sexuality any more, it's about identity. Or being a 'spicy straight' as one of my friends says

Or being bisexual. This is why the term "Bi erasure" exists. The idea that when a bisexual person settles down with somebody from the opposite sex they're not bi any more.

Clymene · 23/03/2022 10:09

@Mysterian

Yes I also know someone who describes herself as queer. She's been married to a man for 8 years and got together with him after divorcing her previous husband.

Apparently it has nothing to do with sexuality any more, it's about identity. Or being a 'spicy straight' as one of my friends says

Or being bisexual. This is why the term "Bi erasure" exists. The idea that when a bisexual person settles down with somebody from the opposite sex they're not bi any more.

I am bisexual. I can assure you she isn't. But thanks for your patronising assumption Smile
Nnique · 23/03/2022 10:10

@RedRobin100

My brain hurts trying to work these labels out
That’s because it’s utter nonsense and you’re not supposed to be able to understand it. It’s gibberish and means nothing.
Iluvfriends · 23/03/2022 10:11

I hate the word queer.

Femalewoman · 23/03/2022 10:22

@BellaMachine

Lots of us are lesbians, it’s not special enough as a label anymore, it definitely won’t stand out in your instagram bio. That’s why we now have over 300 genders and there’s probably just as many sexual orientations by now.
Yep.

How do you feel about the lesbians should find trans women attractive otherwise they are transphobes argument? Or have you not encountered that one.

Halllyup17 · 23/03/2022 10:28

Who cares? If she's a colleague, rather than a friend, I'd assume her sexuality has no effect on your life. Don't give it a second thought.