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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Maya Forstater Tribunal March 2022- Thread 3

999 replies

Whatamesssss · 17/03/2022 16:43

Thread one, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4498167-Maya-Forstater-hearing-starts-Monday

Thread two, here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4505825-Maya-Forstater-Tribunal-March-2022-Thread-2?pg=1

OP posts:
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23
MattDamon · 18/03/2022 14:29

@PronounssheRa

It's the Chelsea pensioners that you really need to keep an eye on
I'm sneak reading this thread while pretending to listen to a zoom meeting and I legit choked on my drink at this. Grin
Xenia · 18/03/2022 14:33

"They were the bullies they anticipated others would be, and got in 1st to signal a clear gap between Maya & her views, and CGD's views. They did to Maya what they thought would be done to them by like-minded people who were viciously intolerant of views like Maya's. "

It is a tough issue for some companies.If someone on your staff has a very unpopular hobby that most people in the UK or most of your customers would think absolutely disgusting eg lawful fox hunting in France or voting Tory or they campaign lawfully outside abortion clinics then even if you believe there is nothing wrong with a plural society with different views and even if you believe it is fine if the staff member states facts which lots of your customers do not want stating, do you put the shareholders first and get rid of the staff member or do you stand firm even against views or facts you hate?

It becomes very hard to stand up against a view when everyone at work is forcing a different policy down people's throats. I am not saying any of these examples are the same as the trans issue because they aren't but even just for me (someone in the 9% in the UK of adults who has chosen lawfully not to have the covid vaccine) it is very difficult - I have been called a killer and I understand that view point.

The interesting point here is that issues of biology are facts so we get into Galileo or Animal Farm territory of a majority at work forcing you to say the earth is flat, x is y or more relevantly here that xx does not exist etc. We have the two protected things up against each other now thankfully and due to MF - the two rights to weigh up (people, probably most women in the UK on the MF side who are thankfully feeling more free to express views now v trans activists).

I have just spent the last hour hating a document full of "they" for one person - I almost wanted to burn every page. Trans people are singular and single and I have no problems with a German "he she and it" but never a "they" other than for conjoined twins.

ClawedButler · 18/03/2022 14:33

What's happeninggggggggggggg? Tried following the Tweets but it's so confusing, Tabby's transcripts have been way easier for me to follow.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 18/03/2022 14:34

Hands up anyone who is startled to discover that the MRA rhetoric espouser MP has assisted somebody like PB through the transition process?

There's always a friend/colleague/family member who completely turns off people's ability to consider the perspective of those who see an intersectional clash of rights and protections.

Awkwardy · 18/03/2022 14:38

@ClawedButler gap while Mark ran out of the room and Masoud Ahmed was fitted up with the tin hat.

Now Olivia 'Head Girl' Dobbie is asking about CDGs recruitment, and annoyingly typing after every answer

crypticandsober · 18/03/2022 14:38

I have the link and have joined, but just a black screen and can't hear anything. Am I just being dense?

Jackiebrambles · 18/03/2022 14:39

@crypticandsober

I have the link and have joined, but just a black screen and can't hear anything. Am I just being dense?
Yes I struggled with this, you have to enter with the video/sound thing displaying or you don't get anything.
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 18/03/2022 14:40

@crypticandsober

I have the link and have joined, but just a black screen and can't hear anything. Am I just being dense?
Did you join so that you could see the video and audio? Did you join with the phone connection rather than video connection?
SecondRow · 18/03/2022 14:40

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

Hands up anyone who is startled to discover that the MRA rhetoric espouser MP has assisted somebody like PB through the transition process?

There's always a friend/colleague/family member who completely turns off people's ability to consider the perspective of those who see an intersectional clash of rights and protections.

What's this? Was this said in evidence? Bit lost about what points OD was trying for there at the end.
Jackiebrambles · 18/03/2022 14:40

I was in and out like a fiddlers elbow til I got the settings right. I was scared I'd enter on screen!

Chrysanthemum5 · 18/03/2022 14:41

Did MP really praise PBS bravery in coming out as a part time cross dresser? Stunning and brave indeed

nauticant · 18/03/2022 14:41

It looks like MA's line is going to be he made the decision adverse to MF's employment because of risk to the organisation. The decision based on writings, tweets, the retweeted video, and the pamphlet she forwarded in response to the QI report and from those I discerned her core beliefs.

OD finished her questions.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 18/03/2022 14:42

[quote Awkwardy]@ClawedButler gap while Mark ran out of the room and Masoud Ahmed was fitted up with the tin hat.

Now Olivia 'Head Girl' Dobbie is asking about CDGs recruitment, and annoyingly typing after every answer[/quote]
I can't believe that these people don't have the courtesy to use a noise cancelling app if they're going to type.

Lots of these conference apps have their own noise cancelling but if you want to be especially courteous there are apps such as Krisp.ai and ClearEdge from ClearLabs?

nauticant · 18/03/2022 14:43

BC: you based your understanding of MF's beliefs on two things MF's didn't write didn't you?

CriticalCondition · 18/03/2022 14:43

Gosh. That revelation of MP's in the last moments of his evidence felt rather like a deliberate parting shot.

Signalbox · 18/03/2022 14:43

Spin and rewrite Grin

MayaWasSackedForGCBeliefs · 18/03/2022 14:44

BC to MA I'm going to suggest and show that you spin things to paint a picture that suits you

Mollyollydolly · 18/03/2022 14:44

Thank God OD has gone, her tip tapping drives me insane. I think it's designed to get us all to switch off.

VestofAbsurdity · 18/03/2022 14:45

What's that about MP and Pip Bunce?

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 18/03/2022 14:47

What's this? Was this said in evidence? Bit lost about what points OD was trying for there at the end.

Yes. It was around when MP said that he found the description of part time crossdresser to be offensive. He explained that he felt it was (I paraphrase) an unnuanced summary of PB's journey to discovering he was genderfluid. MP mentioned that he had supported/assisted someone who had made a similar journey.

VestofAbsurdity · 18/03/2022 14:47

@Mollyollydolly

Thank God OD has gone, her tip tapping drives me insane. I think it's designed to get us all to switch off.
I'm surprised the Judge hasn't asked her to cancel the noise or not do it it looks ridiculous, sounds ridiculous and comes across as unprofessional.
nauticant · 18/03/2022 14:47

So far this is looking like highly legalistic fencing.

nauticant · 18/03/2022 14:49

BC keeps on asking what MA thought and MA often answers "we". This is going to be tortuous.

crypticandsober · 18/03/2022 14:49

@Jackiebrambles

I was in and out like a fiddlers elbow til I got the settings right. I was scared I'd enter on screen!
🤣. Exactly that . Very paranoid!

Thanks all for suggestions.

I've turned on the camera and microphone thing and all I get now is a spinning arrow thing. Maybe the universe is trying to tell me to do some work!

LangificusClegasaurous · 18/03/2022 14:49

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

Hands up anyone who is startled to discover that the MRA rhetoric espouser MP has assisted somebody like PB through the transition process?

Yes, that was a surprise to me, too. Also when he mentioned Bunce's "victory."