Page 29 | Emma Watson's dig at JKR

IamSarah · 2022-03-15T07:39:14+00:00

It appears she said at the BAFTAs 'I am here for all of the witches... bar one' Disappointing but not unexpected. https://twitter.com/emwatsonbestof/status/1503505167207084034?s=21

OldCrone · 16/03/2022 21:19

@BlindGirlMcSqueaky

What do you think I might find ridiculous about a question about the age of consent, given that no one except you has mentioned it so far?

You believe that children are capable of giving consent to receiving medication which will impair their sexual function.

You believe that children are capable of giving consent to being sterilised.

You believe that female children are capable of giving consent to having their breasts removed.

What else do you think children can consent to? I was merely suggesting something that might follow from the above.

BlindGirlMcSqueaky · 16/03/2022 21:21

Could you point to where I've said those things?

OldCrone · 16/03/2022 21:26

@BlindGirlMcSqueaky

Could you point to where I've said those things?

I said: Is it now an "extreme polarised view" that it is wrong to give children irreversible medication (for something which is not a medical condition) and for teenage girls to have double mastectomies because they think they are boys?

Your reply:
Yeah I think it is extreme to say it's 'wrong'. If people want to transition then they should be able to.

You said that it's 'extreme' to say it's wrong to give children irreversible medication and for teenage girls to have double mastectomies.

If you think it's 'extreme' to say that those things are wrong, I assumed you were in favour of children being medicated and teenage girls having double mastectomies.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 16/03/2022 21:27

From that thread
think it's important to emphasise the referrals part, I don't know if surgery was actually performed before the patients turned 18.

've also wondered about how young some of the patients are and what stage of puberty they are at when these decisions are made. Would a 12 year old, presumably sufficiently dysphoric enough to justify surgery not have been diagnosed before puberty and put on blockers or is this a rushed decision after puberty has started

So no, that doesn't answer my question.
It sounds like you can't get that surgery under 18 here which is what was implied from the original post.
Plus someone somewhere wanting to lower it doesn't mean they actually will.
It's utter scaremongering and speculation which can be seen from the first post -
Vague wondering from posters whether that would be extended to 12 year olds and discussing that.
So as I asked - can you get that surgery under 18 or is it all just wondering and speculation posed as fact like the original comment I was referring to did?

BlindGirlMcSqueaky · 16/03/2022 21:30

You might have been talking about children. I'm talking about trans people in general.

I'm guessing you don't magically change your view on transition once that person is an adult?

flyingdream · 16/03/2022 21:31

She seems like a vile bully

EeeICouldRipATissue · 16/03/2022 21:36

I'm talking about trans people in general.
I'm guessing you don't magically change your view on transition once that person is an adult

Exactiy
We were talking about people being trans in general but got nearly sidestepped by the goalposts getting shifted and changed again

OldCrone · 16/03/2022 21:38

@BlindGirlMcSqueaky

You might have been talking about children. I'm talking about trans people in general.

I'm guessing you don't magically change your view on transition once that person is an adult?

Adults can do what they want to their own bodies. They can have all the cosmetic surgery they want (as long as they can pay for it) and can take whatever hormones or other drugs they want to.

Children should be protected because they're children and as children there are some decisions that they don't have the capacity to make.

My post that you replied to was about children. If you weren't referring to children in your reply you should have made that clear, because you weren't really replying to what I said.

OldCrone · 16/03/2022 21:40

@EeeICouldRipATissue

From that thread think it's important to emphasise the referrals part, I don't know if surgery was actually performed before the patients turned 18.

've also wondered about how young some of the patients are and what stage of puberty they are at when these decisions are made. Would a 12 year old, presumably sufficiently dysphoric enough to justify surgery not have been diagnosed before puberty and put on blockers or is this a rushed decision after puberty has started

So no, that doesn't answer my question.
It sounds like you can't get that surgery under 18 here which is what was implied from the original post.
Plus someone somewhere wanting to lower it doesn't mean they actually will.
It's utter scaremongering and speculation which can be seen from the first post -
Vague wondering from posters whether that would be extended to 12 year olds and discussing that.
So as I asked - can you get that surgery under 18 or is it all just wondering and speculation posed as fact like the original comment I was referring to did?

16 and 17 year olds are being referred in the UK. In the US some are only 12 or 13.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-doctors-approved-breast-removal-for-51-trans-teenagers-qvkmz8r2c

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4354711-times-scotland-article-16-and-17-year-olds-referred-for-surgery

AeroMocha · 16/03/2022 21:42

But as nobody has said that in general, people shouldn't be able to have surgery if they choose, then the only thing you could have been arguing is that you think children should be able to as well, as the other clearly happens already.

I don't personally think surgery is the right thing for people with dysmorphia, but it's legal and people do want to do it. What I object to is the idea that it actually makes them the opposite sex, and that they should have access to women's spaces as a result.

I'm all in favour of them looking how they please, being called by whatever name they please, and doing whatever jobs and hobbies they please. Just that it doesn't actually 'transition' them into the other sex.

But I don't think people are arguing against the existance of trans people, or the fact that they are allowed to change their bodies as adults. I may not think it's the right thing for them to do, and I might worry about the effect it has in society of entrenching gender roles, and the consequent effect on children, but that is not the same as arguing that adults can't dress/present how they please, if that makes them more comfortable and doesn't intrude on single-sex spaces.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 16/03/2022 21:46

But I don't think people are arguing against the existance of trans people, or the fact that they are allowed to change their bodies as adults
You might not be, but some are - even on this thread it's been said that they don't think being trans exists, that trans people don't exist.

BlindGirlMcSqueaky · 16/03/2022 21:48

I'm not getting into a discussion about single sex spaces because it ends up with some hypothetical giant erect hairy penis being waved in someone's face.

I will say that I have and will happily share those spaces.

IamAporcupine · 16/03/2022 21:50

@EeeICouldRipATissue

But I don't think people are arguing against the existance of trans people, or the fact that they are allowed to change their bodies as adults You might not be, but some are - even on this thread it's been said that they don't think being trans exists, that trans people don't exist.

No, you are still missing the point. What has been said is that being trans is not something that you are, but something that you do

OldCrone · 16/03/2022 21:51

@EeeICouldRipATissue

But I don't think people are arguing against the existance of trans people, or the fact that they are allowed to change their bodies as adults You might not be, but some are - even on this thread it's been said that they don't think being trans exists, that trans people don't exist.

I'm not going to ask you to define 'being trans' again because you've already said you can't.

But 'being trans' appears to mean 'someone who believes they were born in the wrong body' or 'someone who wants to be the opposite sex'.

Of course those people exist. So 'trans people' exist. But you can't make anyone believe that those people are literally born in the wrong body, or that their desire to be the opposite sex means that they are the opposite sex.

sourdoughismyreligion · 16/03/2022 21:52

@BlindGirlMcSqueaky

You might have been talking about children. I'm talking about trans people in general.

I'm guessing you don't magically change your view on transition once that person is an adult?

It's actually quite normal to have separate standards for children than you have for adults.

Do you think it's good for a 12 year old girl to have a baby and get a tattoo, not necessarily in that order? When that 12 year old becomes an adult, would you hold the same view?

UrsulaBursula · 16/03/2022 21:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

ladygindiva · 16/03/2022 21:58

@BlindGirlMcSqueaky

I'm not getting into a discussion about single sex spaces because it ends up with some hypothetical giant erect hairy penis being waved in someone's face.

I will say that I have and will happily share those spaces.

Oh, OK, as long as you're OK with it I suppose no one else's feelings matter.

VestofAbsurdity · 16/03/2022 23:01

I will say that I have and will happily share those spaces.

Good for you, but I can't and I won't and you don't get to consent on my behalf and by dint of doing so exclude me from the spaces and services that were set up for my use, who the hell do you think you are taking my choices away from me?

BlindGirlMcSqueaky · 16/03/2022 23:51

I don't know what part of I won't get into a discussion on the matter wasn't clear.

LittleWhingingWoman · 17/03/2022 00:35

@VestofAbsurdity

I will say that I have and will happily share those spaces.

Good for you, but I can't and I won't and you don't get to consent on my behalf and by dint of doing so exclude me from the spaces and services that were set up for my use, who the hell do you think you are taking my choices away from me?

EXACTLY THIS FFS. What part of no don't people understand?

LittleWhingingWoman · 17/03/2022 00:37

@BlindGirlMcSqueaky

I'm not getting into a discussion about single sex spaces because it ends up with some hypothetical giant erect hairy penis being waved in someone's face.

I will say that I have and will happily share those spaces.

What bollocks. Literally.

LittleWhingingWoman · 17/03/2022 00:39

"giant erect hairy penis being waved in someone's face."

Whose face? Which someone do you mean? Men or women?

BlindGirlMcSqueaky · 17/03/2022 00:57

@BlindGirlMcSqueaky

I don't know what part of I won't get into a discussion on the matter wasn't clear.

No means no.

autienotnaughty · 17/03/2022 04:19

@BlindGirlMcSqueaky I'm amazed you are still here. 👏👏 unfortunately there is ignorance everywhere especially on anonymous forums, all we can do is hope that conversations like these have an impact on some of the people accessing this thread and makes a difference. I do believe with every generation comes more tolerance and acceptance .

fenulla · 17/03/2022 04:24

@BlindGirlMcSqueaky

It's 'just a feeling' to be left handed, but we no longer try and force people to write with their right hand. It feels wrong is sufficient reason.

If someone says to me that they feel wrong and they would like to make changes to feel more comfortable, I accept that.

Nope