Emma Watson's dig at JKR

[IamSarah]

It appears she said at the BAFTAs 'I am here for all of the witches... bar one'

Disappointing but not unexpected.

twitter.com/emwatsonbestof/status/1503505167207084034?s=21

@EeeICouldRipATissue

So what people are saying and what you seem to be missing the point of is why are people trans, and why do some cis people have a strong sense of self/identity as a woman that has nothing to do with their body? Anyone? ....... .......

No?
.........
....

I heard a transman saying that there is no such thing as 'being trans', that 'trans' is not a state of mind/feeling/etc. For them, being trans simply described the act of having transitioned - ie only after transitioning, they were trans.

They were also fully aware they were not the opposite sex.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

can assure you that I don't screenshot and post anything to Twitter Same, have never screenshotted anything or posted anything to Twitter, suppose that doesn't fit the narrative though.

To clarify re: twitter screenshots. Despite sneering comments implying that posters mentioning monitors, screenshots etc are being paranoid, it is happening. There are dedicated hashtags, I've seen a post of mine as a screenshot on Twitter and we've had posters explicitly say they are 'here for the screenshots'.

It might not fit your narrative (and in fact, I didn't say any poster here had done so) but it is happening.

There are people who describe themselves as "trans" but that does not mean that "trans" is a thing that people are. A distressed teenage girl who takes testosterone and endures a double mastectomy might describe herself as "trans", so might a fetishistic cross
Dressing man. These are not things that people ARE, they're things that people DO
And it's fucking with young people's minds and bodies and with womens rights.

@fenulla

There are people who describe themselves as "trans" but that does not mean that "trans" is a thing that people are. A distressed teenage girl who takes testosterone and endures a double mastectomy might describe herself as "trans", so might a fetishistic cross Dressing man. These are not things that people ARE, they're things that people DO And it's fucking with young people's minds and bodies and with womens rights.

What do you think dedicating an entire thread to finding ways to slag off a woman for mumbling something incomprehensible under her breath is doing for women's rights?

And I have no idea what the rest of that means. I don't have a strong feeling of being a woman.

I do though.
And clearly people who are trans do too.
So what people are saying, is why is that?
There's clearly more to it than anyone knows, including you as you can't answer either.
Oh and look
Yet another thread
Turned into an identikit define one
I mean WTF, it's about Emma Watson and her Bafta appearance, they all turn out the same thread in the end no matter the topic!

What do you think dedicating an entire thread to finding ways to slag off a woman for mumbling something incomprehensible under her breath is doing for women's rights?

Good point
I think it's because she's not the right type of woman

For Pete's sake.

Last time I try actually trying to answer a question, taking it at face value.

Colour me naive, yet again!

And I have no idea what the rest of that means. I don't have a strong feeling of being a woman.

I do though

How do you know? At most, it can only be a sense of what you think women feel like, which is an incredibly misogynistic concept.

@BlindGirlMcSqueaky
Really?
Some people musing about the words an actress might have used is in any way comparable as "impacting" anything at all as men being defined as women?

*You make assumptions there. I do know what induces some people to become transmen and women. I don't reject them, disbelieve them or insist they do not exist.

I find it weird that it is never, in my experience, transpeople who have issue with how I understand them, interact with them, believe that they have assumed a gender that is not their actual sex. It is always people who purport to support transpeople who have those issues with me and my understanding, my belief etc.*

Sorry, I wasn't presuming anything, just going off of your previous post as you said your understanding had been rejected. The other side also feel their understanding has been rejected so was wondering if you did have any insight in how to progress (was a genuine wondering, not a snippy one!).

@Waitwhat23 Re screenshots: fully understand why people would be wary and I'm aware people come on MN to start a fight and then plaster screenshots over Twitter. Wasn't suggesting it wasn't a thing, just felt that a poster was trying to dismiss me by suggesting it's what I was here for.

So is your view that feminists shouldn't ever criticise other women because other people (men?) might perceive that as undermining Women's rights @BlindGirlMcSqueaky ?

Musing? You mean calling her a 'fucking idiot'?

@fenulla

There are people who describe themselves as "trans" but that does not mean that "trans" is a thing that people are. A distressed teenage girl who takes testosterone and endures a double mastectomy might describe herself as "trans", so might a fetishistic cross Dressing man. These are not things that people ARE, they're things that people DO And it's fucking with young people's minds and bodies and with womens rights.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

I do though

How does it feel?
(the strong feeling of being a woman)

For Pete's sake.
Last time I try actually trying to answer a question, taking it at face value.
Colour me naive, yet again!

Why?!
I answered you genuinely, that's the discussion people are wanting to have, but how can we when people are refusing to listen to others?!
I completely take on board that you don't have an identity beyond your body.
That's fine.
Why do I get a Petes sake though, just for saying mine?!
Nobody will discuss.
Why is it that people have this disconnect, why is it some people who aren't trans have such a strong self of identity/self/mind?
Instead of discussing you've shut off.
You don't have the answers, neither do I it's all just shouting into the void at this point.

@LaTisaniere I hope you understand my reticence, but I will try...

It does come down to who it is that is rejecting the information I linked to. No trans person I know does. Only 'allies' here and other SM.

My experience (which I have posted about a few times) us that transwomen are fully aware that they are male and transmen fully aware that they are female.

The impetus to become trans differs between the sexes (No, really it does, statistically, diagnostically, empirically. Even the act of being trans is a sexed activity). We, here on MN, have to forbear discussing one set of reasons as we are usually quickly reported by those who monitor such threads as this, we are then deleted and sometimes banned.

Apologies @fenulla, I was going to reply to your post and then got sidetracked with @EeeICouldRipATissue comment, but left your quote in!

(btw - I agree)

I completely take on board that you don't have an identity beyond your body.

Nope. That is nothing I have said, or think.

Hence the For Pete's Sake!

You don't have the answers, neither do I it's all just shouting into the void at this point.

Again I refer you to the APA. I do have an answer. I agree with them!

Some people musing about the words an actress might have used is in any way comparable as "impacting" anything at all as men being defined as women?

Oh come off it, you know it wasn't just musing about words!
Unless calling her a fucking idiot, a bitch, must have bought her education, talking about her fuckability factor, etc etc that's just a few of them... That's just musing on the words she may or may not have used?
Aye, OK

Ah. I see. You impugn the words of some to all. Treating us as Hive, Borg.

completely take on board that you don't have an identity beyond your body.
Nope. That is nothing I have said, or think
Hence the For Pete's Sake

This was you though

I don't have a strong feeling of being a woman. I am me. The only time I know I am female is when I am faced with something my sexed body does, or does not do, because of it's being sexed.*

You've just said you don't have an identity beyond what your sexed body does.
That's clearly not the case for everyone though is it.

@SamphiretheStickerist That's really interesting, genuinely. I would've thought that you'd have heard more trans people with the same views as the supporters, I take your word that you haven't. I also think that our different experiences says a lot, as I have seen plenty of trans people have the same views as the supporters, so it really does depend entirely on where we get our information from, who we interact with and thus, what our algorithms show us.

I genuinely think that only time will tell. More research will be done, more laws will be passed, people's opinions will change and eventually there will come a type of clarity that all are ok with, but we definitely have some work to do before that.
Honest and respectful discussion is the way forward, so thank you for answering me.

For clarity sake, I'm not on either "side", I have my own values of which some are present in both parties but I don't have the knowledge to "pick" a side and still have a lot to learn.

@EeeICouldRipATissue that is the diametric opposite of what I meant. An odd interpretation if my only acceding to my being female when my body insists - like periods, menopause etc.

I am me. An individual. I choose not to be constrained by societal ideas of feminine and masculine, those gendered expressions/interpretations of behaviours associated with each sex. I am simply me, a woman, adult human female, whose physical reality is sexed, is immutably female but whose sense of self is individual, unsexed, ungendered - and no, I don't mean non binary!

@LaTisaniere, that could be down to the age of the trans people we each know. Those in my life have been known to me since we were in our teens, now tapping 60. They both know what sex they are.

Transman has had all the surgery possible - I was his post operative support for most of it.

Transwoman has had facial feminisation and breast implants. And now complains that old age is reversing the facial feminisation surgery and she looks more like her dad than her dad ever did.

And you will note that as they are people I know I choose to use the names and pronouns they live by. Despite the erroneous information some on these threads may spew, like many GC women, I speak plainly only here - as plainly as is allowed. Partly because I am not a cruel woman and partly because I fear the real life backlash - self employed in a small market town.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Some people musing about the words an actress might have used is in any way comparable as "impacting" anything at all as men being defined as women?

Oh come off it, you know it wasn't just musing about words!
Unless calling her a fucking idiot, a bitch, must have bought her education, talking about her fuckability factor, etc etc that's just a few of them... That's just musing on the words she may or may not have used?
Aye, OK

Oh come on, you know women don't have penises You know men aren't women You know that diverting to criticism of this thread's topic was just a way of responding reasonably to my point Even if some people were unkind about a woman who is thought to have betrayed another it's simply incomparable to the impact of gender identity ideology on women's rights and child safeguarding (other than to be clearly nowhere near)