Why can’t we let the words go and start separating by DNA

[Intheshit1]

Why don’t we separate spaces, sport, prison, domestic abuse, report crime stats etc by what DNA we have. Sure there will be some people that do not fit XX and XY but we can deal with those people on a case by case basis and they can join a group that suits them the best. I assume this is what happens generally anyway.

I could request to see an XX doctor for a smear test. And I would not be able to compete with XY people at Olympic swimming. Crime stats should be reported based on DNA. Hospital wards could be XX or XY. Side effects of medicines would need to be reported by what DNA a person has. It would be made very clear that people with XY cannot give birth and don’t need tampons and that XX people don’t need a prostate exam.

Why don’t we just go down this route. It seems that the gender/sex argument is never going to be won. But… you can’t argue with DNA. Surely.

Supplemental testosterone is a performance enhancing drug, whether you are taking it with improving sporting performance as an object or it is an unintended side-effect of taking this controlled substance for other reasons. So no.

And why would a transitioned female want to do anything like that which would out them as female?

And I thought no man would claim to be a transwoman in order to access female-spaces? So why would a man claim to be female to do it?

No, they wouldn’t be in womens sports if using testosterone, because that would be doping.

There is some very odd stuff happening on this thread. People with DSDs/VSDs have repeatedly asked to be left out of this debate, and I think most feminists are happy to respect that. Anyone trying to use that as a wedge issue or to sow discord needs to give their head a wobble.

muscular, bearded, deep-voiced, testosterone-filled trans men,

Almost of whom are kind of cute and chubby and 5'1". (And not really deep-voiced).

And sexually non-threatening to women.

In a way transwomen distinctly aren't...

Any man could easily pass as a transwoman. Very few men could pass as a transman.

Still waiting to hear about all these other sexes and their role in reproduction. When I had my kids it was definitely sperm meets ova. Funnily enough in all my years studying biology I never came across a third gamete.

@DaisyWaldron

So muscular, bearded, deep-voiced, testosterone-filled trans men, who in some cases had been raised as boys from early childhood, would be competing in women's sports, entering women-only spaces, giving you a smear test when you asked for a female doctor, answering women-only helplines etc? And any man under 6 foot could wander into the women's loos and claim he had XX chromosomes?

why under 6 foot? is this your cut off for women?

Because others will bring up the 3 billion genders argument.
Because some will filibuster by talking about DSDs.
Because males are used to dictating terms.
Because some males want the (perceived) benefits they get from being validated as women.
And because others will use loopholes to commit acts of sexual violence.
Because too many people are too busy “being kind” - vomit emoji - to think about this stuff.

The only word necessary is no.

If we accept the gender identity theorist mantra that a woman is anyone who says "I am a woman", then anyone is a woman. Including those male transitioners who have just said "I am a woman" and done nothing else.

How can it be harder for a man to impersonate a fellow male at any stage of transitioning than a female transitioner?

@VerveClique

I wonder how certain oppressive regimes work out who the women and girls are?

It’s a mystery, but they seem to be able to home in on us with 100% accuracy. Eau de XX I assume.

I apologise, AmbushedByTheCake I did indeed misread you.

But I think my point about cows and farmers is still a good one for anyone who is a bit confused and there seem to be plenty of those about (not here.)

Hey, i think xx and xy sound a bit clunky rolling off the tongue.. maybe we could use words for them
... Oh like I dunno..

'Woman' for 'xx' and 'male' for 'xy'? Whatcha think?

So muscular, bearded, deep-voiced, testosterone-filled trans men, who in some cases had been raised as boys from early childhood, would be competing in women's sports, entering women-only spaces, giving you a smear test when you asked for a female doctor, answering women-only helplines etc? And any man under 6 foot could wander into the women's loos and claim he had XX chromosomes?

Ah, for you the solution is that we let obviously male people do these things instead, without question? I'm not sure why you think this is such a brilliant argument.

Are people deliberately misreading Ambushed?

It read as sarcasm or disdain/fatigue
/Exasperation about the arguments put forward by TRAs, not agreement...

@Nikolaus

Are people deliberately misreading Ambushed?

It read as sarcasm or disdain/fatigue
/Exasperation about the arguments put forward by TRAs, not agreement...

Thank you Nikolaus. It is those things.