How will we ever get these disgraceful Tories out, if Starmer keeps spouting this nonsense?

[HoliHormonalTigerlilly]

I mean,aside from wondering why on earth he's visiting soldiers in Estonia and banging on about TWAW, I am seriously wondering how we will ever get rid of these heartless Tories?

Labour seem intent on alienating half the population 😢

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-women-are-women-says-keir-starmer-in-call-for-legal-reform-6rk9tpxsl

@TooBigForMyBoots

Lots of Tory MPs have spoken out, many of them women. Kemi Badenoch spoke very well just the other week. They just get less attention in the press and on social media.

Do you ever wonder why that is? It suits the Times, Mail and other rightwing outlets to report extensively on Labour's views. Regardless of the MP's views, it's an automatic vote loser. From both women and trans folk.

They rarely comment on the TRAs in the Conservative party

Of course it suits them but if Labour didn't mercilessly hound it's own members and MPs for wrongthink they'd be less of a story there. The only Conservative MP who does similar is Crispin Blunt and he has had quite a bit of press about it.

But if we don't use our vote or spoil our paper then they have control again, they have stopped us using our hard fought for vote, losing another womans right.

The only Conservative MP who does similar is Crispin Blunt and he has had quite a bit of press about it.

No he isn't. Last year Penny Mordaunt used her Front Bench position to rail against HoL amendments to the proposed GRA bill. There's a whole heap of Conservative MPs on SM saying TWAW. They just aren't reported by the RW press because it's an automatic vote loser.

The Conservative Party no more know what a woman is than Labour do.

I'm Scottish and can't see any way forward at this point, and feel that all I can do is spoil my ballot, essentially taking myself out of the democratic process.

I'm quite devastated about it really; I've been politically engaged since my early teens, but this issue has narrowed my options so dramatically that I've lost hope.

@WallaceinAnderland

But that doesn't mean a party that says "woman = adult human female" supports women.

At this stage all we are asking for is confirmation of what a woman is.

I think it's more pertinent to ask why Starmer refuses to answer that very simple question. Why is me being a woman so problematic for him that he has to go out of his way to avoid stating the obvious. Who is behind this, what is he afraid of.

I don't want to vote for someone who is afraid of his own voice.

He won't answer because it will likely lose him votes from traditional Labour voting LGBT allies, trade unions etc. Younger voters who think we are transphobic and are likely to vote labour (e.g. my DD and all her friends). There is still a huge chunk of the population who haven't engaged fully with the debate. So Labour are more likely to lose votes from a GC position than the conservatives, which means they have to try to fudge an answer. The conservatives know this and know that "woke" is an achilles heel for Labour. Their position is all about winning votes and not about women's rights at all.

I love the notion people cling to on these boards that it is some sort of aberration that the labour party are on the wrong side of this.

This is the pinnacle of, & final absurdity of the identity politics that the labour party stand for.

I don't understand how so many cling to all the other destructive unevidenced divisive identity politics but think this is somehow different.

It's different in scope but not in the logic: there are hierarchies of identity groups based on power, we must argue about who is the biggest victim and attack the oppressors.

Of course this gender ideology fits with the labour party.

Boris is weak and unreliable, the Tory party are self serving inepts mostly, but they are the party who base policy on pragmatic reality and not utopian ideology which is why they're more resistant to this.

Posts on here are hilarious with the confusion: but of course the uptopian ideology of identity politics is righteous, but in this case it seems to be going very wrong for us?? What to do??

Recognise that facts above idealism are necessary after all and not just meany Tories 🤯🤯🤣

Boris is weak and unreliable, the Tory party are self serving inepts mostly, but they are the party who base policy on pragmatic reality and not utopian ideology

Nailed it. ^^

@ashainspace

Boris is weak and unreliable, the Tory party are self serving inepts mostly, but they are the party who base policy on pragmatic reality and not utopian ideology which is why they're more resistant to this.

This.

You can't call yourself a feminist if you don't vote Tory in the next election.

Wtf are you on about?

That’s the kind of thing someone would post to make feminists look a bit mad, frankly

@ashainspace

Boris is weak and unreliable, the Tory party are self serving inepts mostly, but they are the party who base policy on pragmatic reality and not utopian ideology which is why they're more resistant to this.

This.

You can't call yourself a feminist if you don't vote Tory in the next election.

How do you figure that then?

@VelvetChairGirl

Starmer is a Tory shill anyway who infiltrated the labour party to make it unelectable. first he targeted all the lefties and kicked them out, then the anti isreal jews, now women.

I've always wondered if that was his game all along. Such a shame, after the Corbyn years I had such high hopes for Starmer.

@MalagaNights

I love the notion people cling to on these boards that it is some sort of aberration that the labour party are on the wrong side of this.

This is the pinnacle of, & final absurdity of the identity politics that the labour party stand for.

I don't understand how so many cling to all the other destructive unevidenced divisive identity politics but think this is somehow different.

It's different in scope but not in the logic: there are hierarchies of identity groups based on power, we must argue about who is the biggest victim and attack the oppressors.

Of course this gender ideology fits with the labour party.

Boris is weak and unreliable, the Tory party are self serving inepts mostly, but they are the party who base policy on pragmatic reality and not utopian ideology which is why they're more resistant to this.

Posts on here are hilarious with the confusion: but of course the uptopian ideology of identity politics is righteous, but in this case it seems to be going very wrong for us?? What to do??

Recognise that facts above idealism are necessary after all and not just meany Tories 🤯🤯🤣

Can you give me some other examples of identity politics within Labour please Malaga ? Interested to hear these as I have only recently started paying attention recently to be honest.

It’s first past the post for voting. It means if a load abstain because ‘I won’t vote Tory’ then it is more likely Labour will win (or form a coalition with LD).

I’m voting Tory. I can’t stand up for women’s rights if nobody knows what women are. And frankly, so much of the anti-tori rhetoric is decades old, and has very little to do with the current government.

I wonder how many envelopes stuffed with cash are being bandied about and landing in peoples back pockets?

That's the only reason I can see for certain supposedly intelligent people making such ridiculous statements.

I am not aiming my comments at people posting on here.

Starmer is just a tidier version of Corbyn with this. This stupid shit makes them unelectable. The Tories will go full tilt on this and, despite their criminal incompetence, they will undermine all opposition parties sufficiently to get back in.
Just as I couldn't vote Labour with an apologist for antisemitism as leader, I can't vote for Labour with a Men's Rights apologist as leader. Voted labour since 1987

@Sausageandeggs

It’s first past the post for voting. It means if a load abstain because ‘I won’t vote Tory’ then it is more likely Labour will win (or form a coalition with LD).

I’m voting Tory. I can’t stand up for women’s rights if nobody knows what women are. And frankly, so much of the anti-tori rhetoric is decades old, and has very little to do with the current government.

What?? The current government are headed by a proven liar who appoints people based on whether they will toe his line, rather than on competence. They regularly break the laws of the country. They abuse their position to award money and contracts to their friends. Plus they are funded to at least some extent by dubious Russian money. The current government are the worst I've ever known. They deserve the "anti tory" rhetoric!

This is going to be asked of every single labour mouthpiece come the next election campaign. It's their brexit isn't it, they keep hoping it'll go away but it won't until they address it meaningfully.

Labour have always been a broad church and inevitably there are nutters of all stripes in there. I could live with that if free debate was tolerated but right now it isn't.

In Scotland we have Alba, they're openly GC but I don't support independence so I can't vote for them either.

What an almighty fucking horlicks.

Boris is a serial shagger, potentially abusive, presides over a government that has effectively decriminalised rape and puts forward policy to "encourage" women to provide free child and elderly care.
I don't understand how women can bring themselves to overlook all that, just because the Conservatives say "woman = adult human female"

I don't think that's the discussion here, most would agree with all of that. I have never voted Tory but last time I couldn't vote Labour or lib dem either.

Labour's (lack of) policy on this is a symptom of a bigger problem that prevents a great many moderates from voting for them.

I work in education so will probably hold my nose because the Tories are an existential threat on that score too, but I'm sick of voting for the least awful option.

As far as I am concerned TWAW seriously messes up the minds of children and young people. It as big a ‘spin’ and lie as anything could be. So is the messing around with words and meanings.

@ashainspace

Boris is weak and unreliable, the Tory party are self serving inepts mostly, but they are the party who base policy on pragmatic reality and not utopian ideology which is why they're more resistant to this.

This.

You can't call yourself a feminist if you don't vote Tory in the next election.

Sorry that's just ridiculous. We have zero feminist options where the main parties are concerned. So feminists, if they want to vote, will just be making the best of bad circumstances whoever they vote for.

Don't waste my time with "what about the shit Tories ". I fucking know how shit they are. I lived under Thatcher ffs. I know about shit Tories.

...the Tory party are self serving inepts mostly, but they are the party who base policy on pragmatic reality and not utopian ideology which is why they're more resistant to this.

It was the Tories who proposed self ID in the first place, and I think it was Penny Mordaunt who stated that 'trans women are women' in the HOC.

@Thelnebriati

...the Tory party are self serving inepts mostly, but they are the party who base policy on pragmatic reality and not utopian ideology which is why they're more resistant to this.

It was the Tories who proposed self ID in the first place, and I think it was Penny Mordaunt who stated that 'trans women are women' in the HOC.

Exactly. Maria Miller didn't consult any women's groups when she was equalities minister This is from 2019 www.independent.co.uk/news/health/trans-rights-reform-lgbt-gender-recognition-conservatives-maria-miller-theresa-may-a8707691.html

@AdamRyan

Boris is a serial shagger, potentially abusive, presides over a government that has effectively decriminalised rape and puts forward policy to "encourage" women to provide free child and elderly care. I don't understand how women can bring themselves to overlook all that, just because the Conservatives say "woman = adult human female" I'm more likely to vote Starmer as his track record as DPP was to actually take action that helped women, regardless of him saying TWAW. I don't think he'll implement self ID. In fact I interpret what he's said as keeping the status quo, which is OK with me. Not a cat in hells chance I'm voting Tory. I am not a turkey, thank you.

Boris only shags adult human females. Helps that he knows what a woman is. Also the Tories kicked the reform of the gra into the long grass, which gives us time to win a few court cases and set the tone that women will not be ignored.

What is this policy that "encourages" women to provide care?

Starmer may be a plant as some think to make labour unelectable I have my doubts but either way he is not fit to govern the country when he ignores half the population.

In fact as the DPP he should have learned something about women, he should be strong enough in his position to state what a woman is, to get rid of anyone who gives no shits about women in his party, just generally to be a better quality of person than he is.
How can I elect him when he cant state absolutes without the threat of being kicked out. How can you run a country if your too scared to say the difficult stuff? Fucking wuss he is.

@AdamRyan
“Exactly. Maria Miller didn't consult any women's groups when she was equalities minister
This is from 2019
www.independent.co.uk/news/health/trans-rights-reform-lgbt-gender-recognition-conservatives-maria-miller-theresa-may-a8707691.html“

That was a narrow escape!

It is extraordinary how much happened under the radar from the ill-considered GRA 2004 (Tony Blair) on.